Date: 2011-01-01
Type: Verbatim
For a complete catalog of Brandon’s tweets, visit the Twitter Portal at Brandon’s website.
Happy New Year, all. It is official—I have begun working on A Memory of Light , fourteenth and final book of The Wheel of Time.
I have updated the progress bars on my website with this year’s tasks. I’ll try to be better about keeping them current.
The first step is to re-read the entire Wheel of Time. Towers of Midnight had some small continuity errors—mostly me forgetting who knows what.
We fixed them for the paperback, but it is a sign that I’m starting to forget details. That means I need to re-read Mr. Jordan’s work.
I fully expect this re-read to take until April. I need to divide my time among reading, outlining, and studying the notes.
By the way, I did get a Nook for my birthday. So I’m in the process of getting e-copies of the WoT uploaded.
Since people are asking, the continuity errors were things like Grady telling Perrin about the Cleansing as if for the first time, but…
…there’s a line in Knife of Dreams where Perrin notes that they’d mentioned it to him. We don’t see the conversation, but it’s there in narrative.
Need a devout reader of the Wheel of Time to watch over what you are writing so they can be like: “He died in book five.” “oh.”
The thing is, I had eight of those for Towers of Midnight . They all missed these too. It was the time crunch that did it to us, I think.
No biggie, but did you fix for ebook by chance?
Yes, it should be all fixed for the ebook.
Also the fact that Min’s viewings aren’t always around Aes Sedai when they are supposed to be.
I’m working on the assumption (as she’s said before) that she doesn’t always pay attention to them, as there’s so many of them.
Is there a list somewhere of the continuity changes made for the Towers of Midnight paperback?
Not yet. Many things fans pointed out weren’t actually errors, but the Theoryland thread caught most of the things we changed.
Yes, I will be live tweeting/blogging my re-read. Should have some fun things to post about the WoT as I go.
Some are asking if my tweets/blogs will have spoilers for WoT books. I’ll try to keep those to a minimum. But there will be some.
Have you considered using a hashtag for your WoT re-read tweets? Would make it easier for fans to follow and participate.
Yeah, but I always forget to put in the hashtags…
Pick a hashtag. We can always retweet the stuff you forget to tag. That’s what HCFFs are for, right?
Want to join in the re-read fun? @BrandonSandrson is tweeting as he goes. Use this hashtag #wotrr to follow and comment as it progresses.
I want to do the #wotrr with you! What book are you on??
I’m still on Book One. Basically, I’ll do 10% of a book a day minimum.
I am feeling a crazy urge to re-read Robert Jordan’s The Eye of the World . I blame @BrandonSandrson and his #wotrr tweets.
The end of the series draws near. An end of an Age of fantasy reading for many of us.
Does it take you longer to read WoT now than when you first read them? Do you read more carefully since you’re ‘working’?
Yes, much longer.
The problem with trying to read through The Wheel of Time series for the first time is that it’s so huge it’s just daunting.
First book stands very well on its own, and first three make a solid trilogy. You can read to either point…
…and there decide if you want to continue on. It feels less daunting that way.
I’ve never read any of the Wheel of Time books. I think this might put my fantasy book reader street cred in danger.
Ha. It’s okay. They’re fun, though. (I might be biased.)
Man, I love the prologue of The Eye of the World . Some of my favorite writing in the entire series. Great insight into Ishamael’s personality pre-madness.
People like to talk of Rand’s character development. Elan -> Ishamael -> Moridin is almost as interesting to me. His outlook has evolved so much.
Has it really evolved? he’s still the megalomanical favorite/topdog he’s always seen himself to be.
No, he’s really changed a lot. He’s a fatalist now, as I mentioned to @dragonmount. He knows far more.
How would you compare Ishamael’s motivations from when he was Elan vs when he was Moridin?
Elan is actually more selfish. He still thinks he will rule, that the Dark One will take over the world and create a new one.
Moridin has been through madness and touched the mind of the Dark One. He is far more fatalistic, and actually less selfish.
And therefore…less predictable? :)
I was wondering if anyone would pick up on that quote in relation to my tweet.
In TGS 39 , Verin tells Egwene that the Dark One looks for selfishness more than any other trait in his leaders—namely, the Chosen—because it makes them predictable.
Is it wrong for me to have been under the impression that Moridin isn’t “mad?” I’ve thought he was less mad than he was…
…as Ishamael. Mad being crazy not mad being evil because obviously he’s evil.
Moridin is less insane than Ishamael was. Much as Rand is less insane than Lews Therin was.
You say Moridin is less selfish. Is he now a Dark Buddha wanting to end the suffering of existence in the nirvana of oblivion?
It’s not that he’s unselfish. But compare his lines in The Eye of the World and Knife of Dreams and Towers of Midnight to see the difference.
Probably RAFO, but will the voice from Tarwin’s Gap battle in The Eye of the World ever be explained?
RAFO. :)
Interesting. In The Eye of the World , Rand uses Light and Power. Is it significant that he uses Light and Power again in Towers of Midnight ?
Yes.
Can Rand channel Light and Power as a result of touching the Eye of the World, or does he have access to it because he is who he is?
It was the power in the Eye, so far as I know.
Can Rand get the most POVs in A Memory of Light , please? (bambi eyes, clasped hands) We were severely deprived in Towers of Midnight . :’( (grovels)
There will be more Rand VPs in the last book, I promise.
Rand’s lack of VPs in Towers of Midnight was intentional. Much like his lessened VP role in The Dragon Reborn , and for similar reasons.
Was the lack of Rand VPs in Towers of Midnight intended to show his change from other characters’ VPs?
In part. There are other reasons. But that’s part of it.
Never did figure out what it is exactly that killed Lews Therin in the prologue. Thoughts after reread?
It’s a toss up between getting consumed by holding too much Power and getting struck by that bolt of energy from the sky.
Out of curiosity, why aren’t you starting with New Spring ? Useful continuity stuff there.
I like reading New Spring when it was released. Feels better to me there.
The first wind is in the Mountains of Mist; I’ve always assumed this was a nod to Tolkien’s Misty Mountains.
Look in The Way of Kings on the full map of Roshar for something similar.
Well, his Charlestonian background makes the “Two Rivers” the Charleston area, so the “Mountains of Mist” may be…
… the Smoky Mountains, upstate from his home. (FYI: the Charleston area is defined by the Ashley and Cooper Rivers.)
Nice note. I’d never known that.
Listening to WoT on audiobook, first time through series. Book one seems heavily influenced by Tolkien so far.
Yes, book one is very Tolkien influenced. Very. Book two less so. It’s almost gone by book three.
The Way of Kings map doesn’t have the Misted Mountains labeled, but they border Shinovar on the east.
Reading this book, I’m reminded of how deeply Dragonsteel (one of my foundational, yet, unpublished works) was influenced by the WoT’s start.
Actually, of the three fantasy epics I wrote during my early years— Dragonsteel, Elantris , & White Sand — Elantris was the least WoT-like.
Elantris in a way reminded me of King’s Eyes of the Dragon , with the fairy-tale-like writing style.
I love Eyes of the Dragon . Might be an unconscious influence.
Reading the start of The Eye of the World reminds me that there’s an extra person in the cover art. (More obvious in the secondary, inside piece, I think.)
In the cover of The Eye of the World there’s only Moraine, Lan, and one boy to the side. Am I looking at the wrong one?
There are two covers. One ended up on the inside flaps. The outer one wraps around, though, and I think he’s in both.
Here’s the secondary cover: http://bit.ly/hZu0Uw
HCFFs already know who that person is, but it’s a fun Easter egg to know that there’s a story behind that extra figure.
By the way, HCFF stands for “Hard Core Fan Freak” for those asking. They’re self named. It’s what many uber-wot-geeks call themselves.
Mr. Jordan wrote a large chunk of The Eye of the World with a fourth Two Rivers lad going along with Perrin, Mat, and Rand. Was to be a major character.
Harriet talked him out of it, pointing out that the fourth lad never did anything useful. @theoryland, do you guys have a good thread on him?
Nah, nothing to talk about really. But here is RJ saying that: http://bit.ly/RJ-BN2000
I’ve asked Harriet if she could dig up any of the old manuscript with the fourth ta’veren in it, but she’s not certain they have any.
She said she thinks he was Dannil, but couldn’t remember for certain. Many think he was Ewin—a good guess and a possibility.
Cover art was commissioned when he was still a main character, and it was too late to change it when he was removed.
Looks like the fourth ta’veren was Dannil, in another form: http://bit.ly/h0iDIO (Look for Liandra’s question.)
Jason from @dragonmount says: “RJ once told me that Daniell’s heroics ended up being done by the other Two Rivers boys.”
What role would the so-called ‘Fourth’ ta’veren have played if he had been written into the story? Could you elaborate?
I’d like to see the original drafts if I could. I do know RJ said his part was split among the other three.
Is the fourth boy (Dannil)’s name pronounced [dan-nil] or [daniel]?
I say the first.
Some fans think this is a BS story made up as an inside joke between RJ and Harriet about the cover art, mostly because the concept of three heroes seems to work better with the mythology that RJ used to develop them.
Ha. Thom showing up at night, and people grumbling, makes me smile now knowing about the unwritten prequel involving his arrival.
Weren’t there two other planned prequels that never made it? Will they ever see the light of day?
Yes. But they probably won’t be published, I’m afraid.
For those asking, I’m not allowed to talk about the prequels yet. It’s unlikely they’ll be written. If they aren’t, I’ll see what I can say.
First laugh: “She asked the Wisdom for directions this morning,” Ewin said, “and called her ‘child.’” Rand and Mat both whistled…
If Mat could go back in time, he’d thump himself fawning over Moiraine in The Eye of the World . Then he’d fawn over Moiraine, but pretend he wasn’t.
“Strangers and a gleeman, fireworks and a peddler. It was going to be the best Bel Tine ever.”
Lol. From @ltnolan0347: “Trollocs and Aes Sedai, Dragon’s Fang and Padan Fain. Worst Bel Tine ever…
Another thought: Cenn is right more often than wrong in these early chapters. Unexpected, as I think of him as a blowhard.
“…the ramp with a thump, while Mat and Perrin announced loudly that the Taren was not half as wide as they had heard.”
WoT statistics: Egwene appears for the first time about 7% into The Eye of the World . She is the first person to fold her arms beneath her breasts.
As much as we like to talk about Robert Jordan using that phrase, I think that’s the only time it appears in The Eye of the World .
Amusing that, after all they’ve grown, Egwene and Rand’s interaction in The Eye of the World 3 has many similarities to their interaction in Towers of Midnight .
Took me a moment to realize this phrase did not refer to Egwene’s breasts ;) RT @BrandonSandrson: “Amusing that, after all they’ve grown…”
Lol. You just about killed me with laughter on that one.
It bears remembering that of the group, only Egwene left the Two Rivers for adventure. The others were forced. (Or felt they were.)
This is very important for her character. In a way, she was the only one who chose this life intentionally. At least at first.
Aha. First braid tug I spotted was at the 30% mark.
I wonder if Rand and Egwene dancing in Baerlon counts as a fulfillment of her Winternight promise to dance with him on Bel Tine.
I’ll admit, the Tinker scenes had me wishing—as a youth—for a Perrin+Egwene hook up. I never wanted her for Rand.
“I’d like being your Warder.” Rand to Egwene, near the end of The Eye of the World .
Brandon, does Lan still sharpen his impossible-to-dull heron blade in the electronic edition of The Eye of the World ?
I actually have Robert Jordan’s original word files; I need to get the new ebooks.
It’s actually not a heron-mark blade. Just a Powerwrought blade.
And, here we have mention of Anla the Wise Counselor. For those not in the know, there is theorizing on her: http://bit.ly/f8s2T4
At least one…problem with that link…in “To Sail Beyond the Sunset” RJ refers to Robert Heinlein in The Great Hunt .
Didn’t know that. Thanks.
Will we see any more of those awesome references (Anla, Mosk and Merc, all the other tidbits) in the last book?
There were some in my [WoT] books that I don’t think have been caught yet.
Back to reading The Eye of the World , all. Posts to follow. I’ll try to keep it at a steady stream, not a flood.
WoT Easter Egg: there’s an easily overlooked line in the prologue of The Eye of the World which gives huge foreshadowing of things Rand can do in Towers of Midnight .
I always thought the fact that Lews Therin could sense that there were no people around for miles was interesting.
I should have guessed that you’d be the only one who would pick out the right line, Terez.
The Easter egg in the prologue has to do with Lews Therin sensing the lack of people around him for miles and miles.
Regarding yesterday’s Easter Egg, Maria mentions RJ was preparing a blog post on the concept.
For those who missed it, it has to do with Lews Therin sensing nobody was nearby when he made Dragonmount.
And before you ask, no, I can’t say more. Sorry. Suffice it to say that what is in the books stands as enough of an answer, for now.
My original(ish) post on the ability to sense for people: http://bit.ly/safegates in ‘06. I was a noob(ish) then.
Interesting theory. What do you think of it now?
I think it still holds up (despite a few details I missed), but I think it’s not what you were getting at. :)
Most think this has something to do with the ‘one with the land’ thing. (See the Fisher King tag for more info.)
Do you use Ideal Seek for your WoT research? http://dposey.no-ip.com/IdealSeek/
I have my own e-copy in word format of the entire series, to empower me to use searches. I’ve been to Ideal Seek before, though.
Yes, early WoT is very Tolkien influenced. But several original things really stood out to me when I was younger.
1) The magic. 2) Strong female protagonists. 3) A woman ‘wizard’ figure who was far more human than others I’d seen. 4) Tam lives.
Though I like Gandalf, Dumbledore, Belgarath, & Allanon, I prefer Moiraine as a character. (Actually, Allanon always just annoyed me.)
I always liked Allanon :(
It’s okay. I’m fond of him. But he still annoyed me.
Can you share what it is about Allanon that annoyed you? I can list a few, but the main reason was his decision making…
Mostly the air of mystery and withholding information. Often a problem with people in his role, but he seemed more-so.
What about Polgara? :P
Polgara was awesome. Belgarath was pretty cool too, but Moiraine always feels slightly more real than either one to me.
But that’s modern Brandon. Teenage Brandon might have thought differently.
But which of those early wizards was your favorite? I liked Belgarath, but Eddings was one of my first series.
As a youth, I often listed Eddings as my favorite author. It wasn’t until I was older that WoT took over completely.
I agree, I still read Eddings and suggest him to people who are “new” into fantasy, but it has gone down my list too.
There is a perfect age to read Eddings, where he resonates best. As you age, something about his characters and plots…stiffens.
I am in agreement but I love Belgarath’s humor and his devotion to family and his God and his brothers.
Belgarath was interesting also in being an amalgamation of a trickster figure and a wise mentor. By far one of Eddings’ most round.
Both him and Polgara. They’re both also more powerful than Moiraine. But there’s just something about her. True wisdom.
I was thrown by your “when I was younger” remark until I remembered this series started 20 years ago. Wow.
I started when I was 14 or 15…
The WoT names always annoyed me because they’re so close to real names. Any chance of dropping a Blixbop into A Memory of Light ?
Mr. Jordan did this intentionally, to hint that the WoT world was our world in the future (and the past.)
It’s part of the ‘feel’ of the world. They are close to real names because they ARE real names, just many years removed.
The females in The Wheel of Time are among the most two-dimensional in the history of fantasy.
I disagree. Case in point: Tolkien’s female protagonists. (Which was the comparison I was making.)
But even beyond that, you have to remember, this is a society with some skewed gender relationships because of the way magic works.
But Moiraine is hardly two-dimensional. Neither is Nynaeve. They can be annoying, yes, but that’s not the same as two-dimensional.
They scheme, they argue, they tug on their skirts and stamp their feet, or they fall at Rand’s feet. Really?
Aviendha is very distinctive. Tuon is very distinctive. Min is very distinctive. Many of the Aes Sedai act as you say, but…
…I see this as an intentional effect of the society they live in.
Don’t you get annoyed with the females in WoT? The female lead I prefer is Aviendha, the rest are full of themselves.
Oh, I didn’t say they didn’t annoy me at times. I said they were strong, and I’ll add that they are interesting.
Final note. I would argue that Jordan’s female protagonists are MAIN characters, whereas Tolkien’s are mainly supporting.
The Tolkien point is valid. However, remember what started this conversation. I was saying things about the WoT that impressed me.
One was a large cast of female main characters, something a lot of fantasy by men I’d read was lacking.
WoT females are caricaturish, sometimes stereotypical, but not two-dimensional. (This from a female.)
Yes, caricatures. A better description than two-dimensional.
Well, different people read things differently. If WoT’s women didn’t work for you, I understand why, though I don’t feel the same.
You’re not the only one to feel that way.
The fact that I see them as caricatures helps me to enjoy them as characters more. It’s RJ’s own type of dry humor.
I view them more of products of a society where social norms are different, and women have something ‘machismo’-like.
It makes them act similar in places, even though when you see into their souls, there is something deeper.
In my opinion this is also true, but the caricature part is an important aspect of accepting ALL WoT characters as they are.
They, like the story itself, are ubertropes. There is more to them than that, just as there is more to the story.
It’s as if RJ’s sense of humor was written for a theater company on stage. Bombastic, perhaps?
I think the word you are looking for is ‘exaggerated’. But yes, stage-acting a very good comparison.
I don’t know if I ever saw it as ‘dry humor’. The Aes Sedai scared the crap out of me in high school.
Well, maybe now that you’re a big boy… ;) RJ said he’d rather hunt leopards…
True enough. XD
I mean, have you SEEN the map of Tar Valon ? It’s supposed to be funny, people. And serious at the same time, of course.
Haha! Just clicked on, never noticed THAT before. Hoho!
LOL Never noticed it before either.
LOL! In nearly twenty years of reading WoT, I never took notice of the Tar Valon map. Thank you for the laugh. I needed that. :-)
I’ve wondered about the map for Tar Valon. That…well, that can’t be an accident. I’ve never asked Team Jordan, though.
Needless to say, it wasn’t something I noticed when I was a teen.
Someone asked RJ about it. Sort of. His answer was hilarious.
Ya know, for some odd reason, I never really saw the map of Tar Valon. Now I’ll never unsee it…
Indeed, it cannot be unseen. :)
…wow, this really changes how I view the siege, harbor, and the iron chain becoming cuendillar .
You are such a perv, boss.
Showed my wife the map. Her immediate reaction: “Oh, Jim Rigney.” Big smile.
You’d never seen that before?
He had. Was just inspired by the moment to show it to his wife. And he’d never seen the quote. :)
I’d seen it…it was a while back; I remember thinking “really???” This reminded me and the quote made it hilarious.
Could give a whole new meaning to ‘Rand had daydreamed over Master al’Vere’s old map…’
‘…half the boys in Emond’s Field had daydreamed over it.’
To the blind… what am I seeing? I see a fish or a submarine. Is there something else?
Hm. How to do this without going places I don’t care to go… Maybe a link will suffice. http://bit.ly/gMSLt6
Ha! Want a twenty-year-old typo? My e-copy (RJ’s original) reads: “Everything depended on whether or not the Trollops were still there.”
What to say about Narg? In my mind, he’s always been a hyena. I can’t shake that image, though there are no hyena Trollocs.
Also, dashing my dreams of RJ typos, it turns out the original e-copies of the early WoT books were lost in a hard drive crash.
Maria says she thinks that what I’m using is a file scanned from print. Trollop/Trolloc makes more sense now.
I love that RJ gave Rand such a personal, powerful internal problem at the start with questioning his relationship to Tam.
Though it’s easy for us to say “Of course Tam’s your father, silly” this issue was deep and meaningful for Rand and served as…
…a wonderful way to make the book about more than the action. It also foreshadows Rand’s later identity crisis with Lews Therin.
“I don’t know that you are worth it, sheepherder, no matter what she says.”—Lan, to Rand, walking with Moiraine to help Tam.
Does having written for the Wheel of Time change the way you engage with it as a reader now?
Yes, a great deal. Though I don’t know if I can explain it in 140-character bursts. :)
Will there be more revelations about the metaphysical cosmology of the WOT universe…eventually?
The encyclopedia should have some.
Has Demandred even been doing anything important besides building an army? (guessing it’s in Murandy)
He’s been doing lots of important things.
Why do you think RJ straight up said that Taim wasn’t Demandred when he could’ve just said RAFO and kept everyone guessing?
I think he was tired of people all looking in the same place.
Anymore “unnoticed” things we should look for that could help for the last book like there was for Towers of Midnight ?
I’ll let you know as I’m building my notes.
Who is your favorite member of the Chosen?
Moridin. Followed by Demandred. Followed by Lanfear.
As for Moridin, I never liked the fact that he thought that Dark One winning would be THE end. I mean, according to…
Robert Jordan, there are no beginnings or endings to the turning of the Wheel right? Only relative beginnings and endings.
Moridin believes that if the Dark One wins, there will BE no Wheel. It will be broken. So in that way, there are still…
…no beginnings or endings. There is nothing. Some, including Cadsuane, believe this is a very real possibility.
I am going to have to pester @BrandonSandrson on my loony theory of Shaidar Haran being Asmodean 2.0. Who’s with me? I have a decent case!
Lol. Wow, I’ve never heard that one before.
Your “lol” saddens me. You know, there’s enough evidence that you could get away with adding it to the last book!
Only problem is RJ said that Asmodean’s soul was outside the Dark One’s reach, though he wasn’t specific as to why. (As I remember.)
Can you just re-read books 1-5 over and over so we can keep talking about Moiraine?
If not that, perhaps I can try to force you to dwell on later mentions of Moiraine, no matter how unimportant.
…and it took me a long time but I’ve narrowed the “something” about Moiraine down to the fact she rarely uses contractions.
Let me know what you find. One thing to note—RJ didn’t use contractions in narrative, but I do. A stylistic difference.
I noticed it in The Great Hunt with Moiraine and Siuan. Siuan uses them left and right because she’s not uppity enough to say “do not”.
It’s a good point, and probably part of that Cairhienin reserve. Or at least, it helps portray it.
Deadsy had mentioned before that she found something ‘off’ about Moiraine. Also, not much later the graphic novel version of New Spring was released, and in it was a correspondence between RJ and the Dabel Brothers, and he mentions that Moiraine never uses contractions.
Do the WoT eBooks include proper italics and chapter icons?
I’ll let you know. I’m not using them yet (I’m using converted Word files) but I’ve asked for them.
Ha. I love bureaucracy. Me to Tor: Hey, I need the wot ebooks. Tor: Just buy them and we’ll reimburse you. It’s easier that way.
You should tell Tor that you need the audio books too. It would be a shame to pass up free books lol.
I already have those. Got them from Tor back when I started on this project. :)
People (mostly my editor) complain about my capitalization of magic-related terms. (Push and Pull in Mistborn.) I learned from RJ.
I’ll admit, keeping track of which terms are upper case while writing these can be hard. Warder, for example, is capitalized.
Ha. I love @GrammarGirl. She says: “Refer your editor to the section on capitalizing Platonic ideals: http://j.mp/18T09Z
When younger, I thought Rand’s first Channeling was lightning in Four Kings. It wasn’t until later that I caught the Bela thing.
No, ‘channeling’ is NOT capitalized. :)
That’s the one I most think should be. We always have to search/replace it after I write a book.
Why did you use the word ‘magic’ in Towers of Midnight ? It never showed up in WoT before that.
RJ used the word a couple of times in the series.
Did he? Because I remember being jarred out of the narrative when I saw it mentioned in Towers of Midnight . Seemed really incongruous.
Yeah, a couple of times. Mostly in earlier books. In Aviendha’s vision, though, it was supposed to be incongruous.
This is (presumably) many, many years in the future. Language and usage has changed.
The word ‘magic’ was actually only used once (in The Eye of the World Chapter 33). Brandon used ‘magics’ in Towers of Midnight Chapter 48 in Aviendha’s POV, but he also used ‘magical’ in Faile’s POV in Towers of Midnight Chapter 16 (neither word appears anywhere else in the series).
This now reads interestingly: “With all his heart & desperation, he silently shouted at Bela to run…tried to will strength into her…
The Bela thing?
Rand heals Bela of her fatigue before Moiraine can.
Since people are asking, Rand’s first use of the Power is healing Bela of her fatigue. He feels the effects later in Baerlon, I think.
Are there any Theorylanders/Dragonmounters who can confirm this for me? Maybe give some specifics or a thread for people?
Didn’t Moiraine bring that to his attention at the end of The Eye of the World or The Dragon Reborn ?
I think she did, but either way, I missed it first read-through.
Actually doesn’t Moiraine confirm it later, she says something like “I had suspicions from the first…then there was Bela…”
I was asking for confirmation on his sickness, not whether he channeled. :)
On the subject of Rand’s channeling, a lot of people are bringing up the event on the ship outside of Shadar Logoth.
I’ll talk about this when we get there. I’ve read a lot of theories on this one arguing for both sides. I’ve never made up my mind.
Wotfaq on Rand channeling: http://bit.ly/fBBrCz I’ve read enough questions from theory-types on the second one to make me question.
Like what? Seems pretty straightforward to me.
And…Linda to the rescue. Once again, 13th Depository has an exhaustive look at all this: http://bit.ly/gYgU7Z (Thanks @einarjh.)
She doesn’t question it either. :D I have not seen a case against it. Also, Vin using up her ‘luck’ reminded me of that. :)
Brandon, come on over. We’d love to “entertain” your theory against Bela. :)
My theory against Bela?
Thought “theories on this one arguing for both sides. I’ve never made up my mind” meant you were undecided on Bela…
…as the first instance of channeling. But now I see you were speaking of the sickness.
The ship is what I was talking about. I remember reading, in the early days, some people trying to refute that one.
The reason everyone misses the first times Rand channels is because the sickness after the lightning is so much more memorable.
The mast swinging and killing a Trolloc, right? I remember thinking ta’veren during my re-read.
That’s what I thought for a long time too. Might still think it. I want to watch it this read.
Re: Rand’s first channelings—do you know of the theory that Rand channeled to bring them to the Eye…
Compare the last few moments before they reach the Eye with when Rand heals Bela of her tiredness.
If that is one of the first channelings, it’s not on any list. Always intrigued me. RJ was so subtle sometimes.
I’ll watch for that, Luckers. Thanks for the heads up.
Okay, we come to Rand using the One Power to swing the boom on the ship and hit the Trolloc. The argument against this one…
…is that the Power doesn’t actually seem to move the boom. The boat shakes for some reason, which swings it down.
In the other two cases, Rand does something actively. In this, it seems more accidental. It’s enough of an argument to make me wonder.
Who says Rand didn’t shake the boat with the Power? Besides, the aftereffects are what make us sure.
I agree. He jolted the boat which dislodged many Trollocs and the boom swept the one attacking him away.
Are you saying him being ta’veren caused it to move?
I’m saying I’ve been made to wonder. The biggest point against it is the sickness he feels after.
So, Rand on the rigging really must be an after-effect of channeling. But it doesn’t HAVE to mean he did it on the night with the boat.
It could have happened in the days between, and… and I’m sounding like @theoryland, aren’t I? You guys are a bad influence on me.
If you actually hung out @theoryland you would never put such an unsupported theory forward for fear of our scorn. ;)
Sometimes, Occam’s Razor is your friend. Alas.
Ha. You want me to think your theories are all well-supported? You think I haven’t heard @theoryland’s Avi theory?
Hey, that was MY theory. And it was way more supported than yours! hmph… (though I didn’t believe it really)
Ouch. I should get Jenn to do an Asmodean panel at JordanCon. I need an outlet for my glossary disdain.
While all of us in the apathy camp think the glossary reveal was JUST PERFECT TAKE THAT YOU CHUMPS.
Of course you were happy, because it was the apathetic way to reveal it…I really need that panel, Jenn!
Tell Shannan. I think we have room for another theory panel.
Also, Moiraine clearly says that early unconscious channeling always comes in response to a desperate need.
We know it was smooth sailing after they left Shadar Logoth, so no opportunity to make Rand channel.
Where did you get the idea that this was my theory? Just something I was curious about. :P
Just from the fact that you were, you know, defending it. :p I know you said you had read it back in the day though.
Unfortunately, I don’t really GET to have theories any more, since I can just look up the answers or ask Maria. :(
And the theories I do have I don’t really get to post about, since they will influence the series end. Maybe once A Memory of Light is done,
I’ll pick a few things the notes are silent on, explain that they’re silent, then jump in with some good, old-fashioned theories.
That won’t stop me from making random comments as I read, though, so maybe those count as my theories.
I am keeping a list, though, to get answers on as I go. Already got a few, actually….
That would be awesome. In the meantime, feel free to defend silly theories. It gives us something to do. ;)
Did RJ specifically state in his notes that the three Aiel Dreamwalkers were clueless about the ‘breaking of the seals’?
I ask, because those same three Aiel Dreamwalkers are implied to know the final use of Callandor early in the series.
Before I reply, expand on that question, if you will. Humor me.
It’s Amys, Bair, Melaine reactions to Egwene’s words in Towers of Midnight Chapter “A Vow” (Egwene POV) I’m wondering about.
Quotation: “but his words were those of madness. He said he is going to break the seals on the Dark One’s prison.”
Amys and Bair both froze. “You are certain of this?” Bair asked. “Yes.”
“This is disturbing news,” Amys said.”We will consult with him on this. Thank you for bringing this to us.”
My question is if all the Wise One sit around the Heart of the Stone, repeatedly, and look at Callandor .
Should not the Wise Ones have knowledge about the breaking of the seals? They already know about Callandor ‘s use.
I’ll say this. RJ’s writing, notes, and outline were very present in that entire sequence. Much less Brandon there.
Felix is a little notorious for being insane, so don’t worry if you don’t get it.
Please tell me all the Black Tower stuff will finally be resolved in A Memory of Light ?
The things I didn’t get into Towers of Midnight with the Black Tower should be in A Memory of Light .
I’m a bit ahead on my #wotrr but I am confused by Byar’s actions in The Eye of the World chapter 38. He seems to “noble” for deceitful actions…
It also seems out of character for Byar to release suspected Darkfriends who killed Whitecloaks. Insight on his reasoning?
Byar never was noble. What he does there is more telling of who he is than anything he says or claims.
He wants them dead. Trick them into an escape attempt, then get them executed.
Quick question, From RJ’s Notes on Callandor , is it a straight bladed sword, or curved, single handed or hand and a half?
MAFO.
BWB claims Callandor is, “a crystal sword with a curved blade….” http://bit.ly/hiKltk
Thanks, Felix. That’s how I imagined it, but with things like this, I can’t always rely on my memory.
Sometimes, I have incorrect biases come from years of reading and imagining.
Who was the Lord of Chaos that Demandred and Taim both mention? There has been tons of debate.
Really? I thought that one was obvious. What’s the debate about?
It’s Rand. Look in the BWB re: Feast of Fools.
Why was Demandred and Taim saying, “Let the Lord of Chaos rule” if it was Rand? Sorry just read through series once so far :(
Here’s a quote for you:
The Feast of Fools
Celebrated in Tammaz (in Arad Doman and the Borderlands) or Saven (everywhere else), the exact day varying according to locality. A day in which all order is deliberately inverted; the high perform lowly tasks (running errands, serving at table, etc.) while the low do no work and give orders to their usual superiors. In many villages and towns the most foolish person is given a title such as the Lord/Lady of Unreason/Misrule/Chaos or the King/Queen of Fools. Not an honor sought, but for that one day everyone has to obey whatever orders, however foolish, are given by the chosen one. (Called the Festival of Unreason in Saldaea; the Festival of Fools in Kandor; Foolday in Baerlon and the Two Rivers.)
I’ve always enjoyed this theory about the Lord of Chaos. It’s fun.
That is a good theory for people to be reading.
YAY. OMG, that theory has been on the rocks for years because of contradicting tour reports.
Also, your tour quotes were vague enough to allow it but most people didn’t see it that way.
I didn’t say the theory was true, just that you should study it. :) But I would like to see those tour reports.
Yes, yes. :) Also, your vague(ish) wording . And the contradicting RJ reports.
Adding to Brandon’s implications here is Sorilea’s comment in reference to the balefiring of Natrin’s Barrow, in The Gathering Storm Chapter 27: “We felt the world warping from here, but did not know what had caused it. We assumed it to be the Dark One’s work.” (Similar to the ripples Perrin and Faile experienced in Knife of Dreams .) This opens up the possibility that people have no idea really what they’re talking about when they assume that the warping of reality is due to the Dark One’s touch, just as Alviarin had no idea what she was talking about when she assumed that the rotting food was the Dark One’s touch ( Knife of Dreams , Prologue).
Yes or no, the place where Asmodean died is significant to why he can’t be resurrected?
Ha. You want me to clear EVERYTHING up? I have to leave @theoryland something to talk about.
Nynaeve is a divisive force among WoT fans. Yes, she likes to call men wool-headed. Next time you read, though, watch her actions.
She often speaks in a way influenced by her culture. But if you watch her body language and intent, she’s a very different person.
An excellent example of this is her conversation with Rand in The Eye of the World
Yes, she calls all men wool-headed. If you want to understand Nynaeve, see these comments as kin to a Seanchan “May she live forever”.
Sure, she means them. Kind of. But mostly, they’re just things you say when you are part of her culture.
Its not just Nynaeve though, there’s not a main character who is a woman who doesn’t voice these sentiments at least once…
That’s why I argue it’s cultural. Makes sense in a culture where men who have magic are a danger, but women are a resource.
I find Nynaeve very annoying. She’s such an irrational pill.
Lol. I can’t help seeing her, even still, as a big sister.
“Dresses were not made for stalking.”—Nynaeve, trying to sneak while wearing one. Gender roles are fascinating in the WoT. For example…
Harriet edits so we’re careful to use non-gender-specific terms. Fisher instead of fishermen, as that’s the preferred WoT usage.
The world has blatant sexism on both sides, and yet, at the same time there’s far more gender equality than found in most cultures.
So what exactly is different about the outline you are making this time compared to for The Gathering Storm and Towers of Midnight ? Besides…
…them being different books.
Afraid I can’t answer that without giving too much away.
At the 35% mark we have Mat speaking the Old Tongue for the first time, books ahead of him getting memories stuck in his head.
I’ve always found this a very curious event. Of the five Two Riversers, Mat’s powers are the most subtly foreshadowed in the book.
Unless you count the short exchange between Lan and Perrin about wolves in a much earlier chapter.
I thought that Mat’s Old Tongue was a small way of RJ letting you think maybe Mat was the important one, not Rand.
Yes, I think you’re right on that count. It was certainly meant to make us think.
The speaking the Old Tongue is from his bloodline though, not his memories in that case, isn’t it?
Yes, but it’s still foreshadowing. He’s the one who does it, not the others.
In The Eye of the World , is Mat remembering the Old Tongue from his own past life or from his ancestors?
Good question. He seems to have confirmed Old Blood for the Old Tongue, but the Aemon memory?
That’s what my belief is, Aemon. Mat Cauthon is the reborn soul of Aemon. Aemon’s Old Tongue.
It isn’t made clear. It could be either. The implication is his bloodline.
The Aemon connection is certainly implied strongly.
“A metal tower?” Rand said. “I’ll bet there’s treasure inside,” Mat said. “A thing like that must have been made to protect something…”
This is the start of Mat acting tainted, which always makes me sad. It will be a while before I can read him as himself again.
First time one of the boys thinks, “I wish [insert other boy] were here. He knows what to say to women” happens at the 48% mark.
I love that in the scene in Four Kings, the fact that the innkeeper is thin seems almost as ill an omen as a flock of ravens.
I wonder if Mat wearing the scarf around his head here is foreshadowing intentionally, or by coincidence, of the scarf on his neck.
Either way, there’s some other strong foreshadowing there of events in Towers of Midnight , though I won’t say specifics to avoid spoilers.
I’ve been wondering for ages is Mat going to wear an eye patch? Or will he wear a strip of cloth like Gemmel’s Grymauch?
RAFO.
Not sure what I think of the “start chapter, flashback to what has happened since last chapter” narrative style RJ prefers here.
I don’t think he does it as much later. In these first books, he seems more worried about characters going chronologically off of each other.
Note that I do like flashbacks, and think that Chapter 33 is interesting structurally. I don’t know if it fits just right, though.
A good point: Some note that the erratic timeline here does help reinforce the sense of sickness from Rand and Mat’s growing paranoia.
Also, it’s fun that Mat is getting paranoid and crazy because of the dagger—except when he’s thinking about food or a nice bed.
Tell me we’re gonna have a whole lot more Mat/Tuon in A Memory of Light , I beg of you.
There will be.
I’m curious, why has Mat’s deepest secrets become well-known rumors in Towers of Midnight ? He only told Thom, Noal & Co. about this stuff.
That’s an excellent question. That I can’t answer yet. RAFO. :)
I noticed in Towers of Midnight that the viewpoint momentarily switched to a man’s (maybe Rand) amidst one of Min’s POVs.
I think we fixed that one for the paperback. Basically a problem with stitching two scenes together.
It was actually a mix-up between Faile’s and Perrin’s POVs.
Without revealing names, did RJ’s notes say whether any character besides Rand is the reincarnation of someone important?
This is a difficult one to answer, as I think even an answer might give some people too much of a clue. I’ll consider.
Amusingly, as a young man, I was annoyed at Nynaeve and Moiraine. But I didn’t bat an eye when the boys ran off alone in Shadar Logoth.
How old were you when you first started reading WoT books?
14 or 15. It was right around my birthday, so I don’t know if it was before or after.
Speaking of Shadar Logoth, Harriet tells a story involving it. Tor wanted to print small teasers of The Eye of the World to distribute and hook folks.
Harriet, the editor, insisted that the booklets go all the way to Shadar Logoth. She thought that would be sure to draw people in.
First non-Rand viewpoint is Perrin, at about the 38% mark. RJ’s juggling of viewpoints is something I didn’t see until I was older.
Many a new fantasy writer, fresh off a WoT book, plans and plots a huge epic with twenty viewpoints. That can be overwhelming to start.
Both WoT and GRRM ease into it more than you realize. In most cases, it’s better to build to complexity.
I’d forgotten that Perrin nearly decides to drop his axe in the water as he swims. But he keeps it, almost against logic.
Are there actually clues in WoT that you did not find so far? That’s cool.
I always find new things when I reread.
Good suggestion: @Terez27 says if you have a WoT question, and want to see if it’s been asked before, you can direct it to her first.
Skipped your tweets when you warned against spoilers; are you on a #wotrr binge at the moment? Can I read without worry?
For the next four months, I’ll be doing the reread. Spoilers will be present, but hopefully vague enough to not ruin things.
But I’ll be posting about the reread almost every day.
Lan to Thom, as they prepare to flee: “You can ride with us, or ride to Shayol Ghul, gleeman.” Well…actually…
I’m curious, do you think RJ intended Thom as a red-herring for who brought the Trollocs on Winternight?
I think he wanted us to wonder about Moiraine, honestly. Just a little. I don’t think Thom was a red herring, but maybe.
I think “Wow, someone BROUGHT the Trollocs?” was the surprise. We didn’t know they had anyone on the inside, so to speak.
I have been thinking about the Aes Sedai First Oath on the oath road “Speak no word that is not true”…
How do they get around that oath when telling others a different name; Moraine=Mistress Alys?
Has anyone done a theory or a blog on the use of names and the oaths?
They say ‘you may call me Mistress Alys’. It’s not a lie unless she says ‘My name is…’ which she doesn’t.
I am trying to remember if they are all that way which is why I brought it up.
I don’t know. If you really name yourself that, then you might be able to say it. Depends on internal rationalization.
It’s easy to say “I’m called Alys” because she is. You can even say “My name is Alys” if you have named yourself that.
Otherwise, a Sister could never go by a nickname, a different name than she’d chosen for herself, etc.
I was wondering what nation the Seanchan relate to in real life. I can peg the rest…
Mix of Japan and Texas, mostly. There’s no perfect correlation.
Pillow Friends = Friends brought together by an interest in the various types of pillows that exist. Right Brandon?
Ha. I’ll say that’s something I missed on my first few reads.
In The Eye of the World chapter 19, is Mordeth’s body an illusion? Does this foreshadow Fain’s powers in Winter’s Heart and Towers of Midnight ?
Mordeth’s body is more than an illusion. But you could call it less than real.
I’ve been reminded by @Darth_Andrea that I never did tweet this awesome WoT fan art: http://bit.ly/fwaQ3n
A note on that fan art—I don’t think @Darth_Andrea made it. She just tweeted it to me. Find the artist at the deviantart link at the bottom.
Does anyone else find it hard to believe that neither Robert Jordan or @BrandonSandrson has won a Hugo Award?!?
It’s sad that RJ never won. I don’t even think he got nominated, not for a Hugo or a World Fantasy award.
Does anyone have a transcript of Guy Kay talking about RJ at the World Fantasy awards?
Here’s that speech I wanted: http://bit.ly/h9XuPp This should be read by every fantasy fan, WoT reader or not. (Also: G.G. Kay is awesome.)
I love that in our second Perrin viewpoint ever, he’s already grumbling about being made a leader—right after expertly taking charge.
Hm. Never noticed that before. First time Perrin sees Elyas’s eyes: “Some memory tickled the back of Perrin’s mind.” Thoughts?
Perrin later dismisses this premonition as simply “Oh, I was thinking of wolf eyes.” But I wonder. Was he a Wolfbrother in past lives?
RJ said that Wolfbrotherness is a soul trait. http://bit.ly/eVwO6u So, possible, though it wouldn’t be a recent life.
Well, that depends. I know a lot of fans believe that in most cases, lives are once per Age, with the soul going somewhere between.
I can’t remember if RJ ever said anything on this.
Yeah, but Birgitte lived several lives in this Age. I always assumed it was because she can’t channel (shorter lifespan).
LOVING the way you write all of the WoT characters, especially Aviendha! Thank you :)
I’ve been waiting for some more Aviendha in the books, and was glad for a chance to slip her in some more.
Much has been made of the blue flash when Thom fights the Fade. I can’t say what it was, but it’s not what most seem to think.
Aviendha’s vision in Towers of Midnight made me wonder, how much will we get to see of what happens to the world after the Last Battle?
RAFO. :)
If the Shadow’s male channelers are called Dreadlords, what are the female channelers called in the Blight?
Right now, most are called Black Ajah. But I see what you’re getting at. I’ve always thought of Dreadlords as gender neutral.
I’ll have to ask on that one. I honestly don’t have the answer handy.
Odd question: In The Dragon Reborn Prologue, a Fade comes to Jaichim Carridin, it’s said that the Fade smiles…
Was that Shaidar Haran? it’s mentioned later he is the only Fade who smiles or laughs?
Many think it’s an early incarnation of him. I’ve read theories to support it.
In the RJ Q&As, he confirms that the smiling Fade is an earlier prototype of Shaidar Haran. http://tinyurl.com/5vy5ghl
Will far off lands like Shara or the Land of Madmen play an important role in the last book?
RAFO. Though RJ said we’d never go to Shara, at least not in any major way. He was less firm on the Madmen.
Is it error when Elyas told Perrin [in The Eye of the World ] chapter 29 that no Hawkwing’s kin stayed in Randland? (Mayene’s Firsts claim kinship)
I haven’t looked at it specifically, but my guess would be that Elyas doesn’t know or believe the claims.
Can both male and females access the True Power? Why does Cadsuane Sedai not question how Rand escapes from being collared?
Yes. And she doesn’t have a chance.
She doesn’t at the time, but afterwards why isn’t she curious as to how Rand escaped being collared?
Cadsuane is curious about a lot of things. So yes, you are right. But she also is good at finding answers unexpectedly.
Is there any chance to see Moiraine & Siuan like that in the near future? :P http://fav.me/d36tic0 They’re just so cute!!
Ha. Well, considering events in The Gathering Storm and Towers of Midnight , I wouldn’t expect it.
You know we expect so much from a Moiraine/Siuan meeting, don’t you? Cause there’ll be a meeting between them in A Memory of Light , right? :P
Oh, I know. No promises, but at least I’m aware.
Do you include the chapter Ravens on your The Eye of the World reread or not since it’s not part of the original publishing?
I’ll read it, I just have to dig it out. I can’t remember where I stuck it.
I wonder if Whitebridge is made of spinglass. Does anyone have an answer?
I always took ‘spinglass’ to be a WoT way of saying ‘spun glass’. Very fragile. Also…
‘The man opened his mouth to protest as citizens always did; they seemed to think Aiel were made of spinglass’.
Obviously fragile is what he’s getting at. Now, if you could do it like cuendillar …that’s different.
Per Moghedien I get the impression there are many forms of cuendillar . Maybe iron is easiest.
That’s a good point—I missed the spinglass = fragile reference. As for cuendillar … perhaps.
There is an argument in the same vein towards Callandor being cuendillar .
Well, people argued Callandor=cuendillar because it stopped balefire. But if Perrin can do it… :)
There was also Osan’gar’s comment during the cleansing that though the Choedan Kal would be destroyed…
… he’d still have Callandor . Of course he could have meant to balefire Rand and attack Narishma. Still, weird.
Callandor is the most powerful sa’angreal without the Choedan Kal. He might just be noting the fact.
It’s the expectation that he would have Callandor after he balefired the hill which is significant.
He didn’t say he was going to balefire the whole hill. Elza got his hill, though. ;)
Strongest Rand could manage with fat man was man-thick. He could sweep it, but it’s not necessary.
I did make that point, but it’s weird, risking Narishma’s response to the attack.
Rand was distracted, why not kill Narishma first, then Rand. Also Osan’gar links the balefire to…
… Rand’s death—”But still, he could take Callandor after al’Thor was dead.”—as if it’s a result.
I read it as him seeing Rand as the only real threat.
Which is weird, in itself. Callandor circle responding to reversed webs—a scary, and impossible thing for someone from the Age of Legends.
True, but he might have figured out the ter’angreal thing like Demandred, and he was at point blank range (for balefire).
So if the cuendillar Egwene makes is white, why are the seals half black? Saidin -made? Different type of cuendillar ?
re: black/white, I always figured this was why Elayne couldn’t get the colors right with the stone ring (no man).
@WoTLuckers @Lironah @Terez27 Now that’s an interesting conversation. Re: cuendillar .
lol, now I get to catalog the whole conversation because Brandon said it was interesting.
Pop quiz: What is the first thing that makes Perrin hate his axe? (It’s something I’ve always found very interesting about him.)
It’s not Whitecloaks, though that’s a good guess. Perrin thinks if the ravens attack, he’ll kill Egwene & save her from a worse death.
Ah, I’d forgotten about that. Elyas goading him about it didn’t help either, as I recall.
Yes, Elyas all but taunted the truth out of him.
Regarding how Elyas goads Perrin in that scene: I’m sure he knew exactly what Perrin was thinking, and wanted to make him confront it.
Well, yeah. Perrin didn’t say anything about what he was thinking. Elyas said it all, exactly what he was thinking.
Both his true motivations—choosing her death—and the motivations he feared (which were stupid, of course).
No. Elyas claims that he thinks Perrin hates Egwene. Which is dead wrong, and Elyas knew it.
Right, that’s what I was saying. Both his true motivations and the stupid ones. Elyas mocks him for the latter.
And then spells out what he really wanted: ‘One clean blow of your axe, or the way the animals we saw today died?’
It’s not that Perrin was thinking he hated her. He was hating himself for wanting to help her, which was dumb.
Which of course led to a philosophical conversation similar to Second Amendment debates. Which was ongoing, of course.
Did the axe make Perrin more likely to kill? Than before? Than with the hammer? What about the sword, and the spear?
I see it as Elyas very blatantly pointing out the flaw in Perrin’s logic. He didn’t hate her—that was exactly the flaw.
Didn’t hate her, but he hated the axe, and that was a good thing. Never stopped. (Another good cover @torbooks)
Curious: First mention of the Fisher King concept happens when Rand is dreaming, still half-sick, in the back of Bunt’s wagon.
Is this our first Lews Therin moment? Bunt wouldn’t have mentioned it, and neither would have Ishamael. Unless it’s actually something Thom said.
I assumed was a True Dream, including Thom’s connection to the queen, and Rand & Tam with the sword.
But the first Lews Therin moment was in chapter nine when Rand recognized Shayol Ghul (and maybe Ishamael too).
I’d say Ishamael recognition is a fact in chapter nine. There are some nice comparisons with the prologue.
Well, you probably have a point there. Though you might argue that this is a shade of Lews Therin speaking to him, for the first time.
I might, but I wouldn’t. :D It’s more interesting to me the other way, and Rand didn’t dream Lews Therin’s dreams much.
He remarked on the strangeness of it in The Path of Daggers before Lews Therin came back (after having been chased away by Cadsuane).
Wait. What?
I remembered it wrong. Lord of Chaos 19: ‘Lews Therin’s dreams. That had never happened before, not dreaming the man’s dreams.’
In A Crown of Swords 41 while Lews Therin is gone, Rand still hears the voice in a dream.
Oh, I see what you’re saying. (I think.) Is your argument this: “Lews Therin doesn’t talk to Rand in dreams. Therefore, this isn’t Lews Therin?”
I think deep down her argument is probably more ‘Lews Therin doesn’t talk to Rand at all’. ;)
Whether Lews Therin really talks to Rand at all or not, this would be quite atypical & strange. As Thom? Why?
Why would Lews Therin speak as Thom? The moustaches baby, the moustaches.
Curious. So who do you think is speaking to Rand the Fisher King words, if it’s not a Lews Therin memory?
It’s a dream. Why does there have to be a ‘real’ ;) person involved?
But I do appreciate the hint. :) [That is, the hint that Lews Therin was also one with the land, and was aware of it. This might be what Brandon was getting at with his Easter egg thing.]
I don’t normally dream things that happen to be word-for-word true prophecies. Rand’s not a Dreamer. He got the info somewhere.
Now I’m going to cry. :( Why can’t Rand be a Dreamer?? So chapter nine was completely fabricated by Ishamael? That is weird.
None of the other dreams influenced by Ishamael were anything like that. How did he create all of those people in Tar Valon?
Why would Ishamael first prevent Rand from reaching Tar Valon, and then force him to go to the Tower? Makes no sense. :(
Lol. I’m not sure if you’re being serious or not. Is there some theory on Rand being a Dreamer that I should know?
I’m being serious. There’s a hint Asmodean’s warding might prevent True Dreams. Also…
Egwene was guided to it, but Rand had no one to guide him if he was a Dreamer. And everything in The Eye of the World nine was true.
Either it’s Lews Therin, it’s something someone told him in the real world, or it’s Ishamael giving him the info.
Maybe he had heard The Karaethon Cycle from Thom at fireside on the way to Baerlon, though. Would make sense.
Well, not on the way to Baerlon, since he mentions them for the first time in Baerlon. But maybe on the Spray .
I’ll entertain an argument that it’s basically ‘known’ information, or that Thom mentioned it.
Did you see my cultural idea? That it might be Rand’s subconscious—like the way everyone knows the Dark One’s name?
But it really seems like a memory, and we’ve never seen people mentioning it, while naming the Dark One we see.
I’ll look up answers on this one for sure; right now, I’m just speaking by instinct. But I read the Fisher King concept as…
…coming from Lews Therin/Rand’s subconscious and being fed through Thom’s mouth as Rand’s mind fit it into the dream.
I’m also pretty sure Rand’s not a Dreamer, though he does have uncommon power over his dreams.
But he does not see specific prophecies in his dreams (other than a few debatable moments) nor enter Tel’aran’rhiod spontaneously.
But I’ll look into it. I rebel against it because Dreaming is basically Egwene’s thing.
Also, didn’t Perrin pretty much just show her that it wasn’t HER thing any more? :p
And yeah, I know his prophetic dreams only happen in Tel’aran’rhiod . But I just want a male Dreamer dangit!
Perrin does something different. Also, Egwene was caught off guard and had been spending a lot of time lately doing other things.
It would be unwise to assume that Perrin is better at Tel’aran’rhiod than she is because of that moment. He had just spent weeks training…
…specifically to fight like that in Tel’aran’rhiod , while Egwene has been forced to fight other fights and let herself get a tad rusty.
haha, yeah I know. I have argued much the same against Egwene-haters. I did enjoy that moment though.
Why do all the prophets have to be female? Foretelling I can see because of the taint, but the rest? Except Perrin.
The Thom dream used to make me think I was missing something, or maybe a deleted scene. Very odd.
Also, even with the taint seems like we should have had a male Foretelling by now, or a dreamer. Something.
Well, out of fondness, I’ll let you know that I DO know of at least one male (other than Perrin) who can see the future.
lol. The male Aelfinn?
Dang. You’re too clever. Okay, then, I promise you there’s actually a man—human—who meets your requirements.
In retrospect, it seems most likely that RJ did in fact pare down Thom’s earlier conversation about the prophecies (in The Eye of the World Chapter 13, or in another place), not wanting to give too much away. The dream in Chapter 34 should have been a recollection of what Thom had told him. It’s possible that Brandon was correct and it had something to do with Lews Therin, but I find it unlikely for many reasons (some covered in the conversation). Also worth noting is that in the previous chapter, during Rand’s fever dreams, Thom mentioned the Black Ajah, which had not previously been mentioned to Rand on screen. Also, this hint from Brandon was the first of many concerning the male prophet; the other clues make it pretty clear that Moridin is a Dreamer.
By the way about my question re: Moridin’s sexuality, my friend now thinks Moridin is in love with the Dark One… :S
I didn’t catch the Moridin question first time around. Would you ask again?
He asked if Moridin was gay since he’s evil but doesn’t appear to be interested in taking advantage of his pets.
What she said. He seems very asexual in general. The thought came after reading the Moghedien/Shaidar Haran/Moridin scene.
It’s also not just that I think he should be raping them because he’s evil, it’s just there is a complete lack of interest.
As for your Moridin question, it is a good one. I’ll look into it as well. I haven’t seen anything either way in the notes.
“He was sure he would never get another chance to see a Queen, and he hoped he would never have another to see a False Dragon”—Rand
Ha. I had in my head that Elayne picked up her swearing habit while traveling—but here she is, already speaking oaths to burn Rand’s ears.
What to say of Rand falling into Elayne’s garden in Chapter 40? As a youth, I rooted for Elayne and Rand quite a bit. Until I met Aviendha.
Never Rand and Min? Seemed the coolest choice to me.
I like Min, but remember, when I first read this book it was the only WoT book. In my mind it was “Egwene or Elayne?”
I loved this sequence as a young man. What could be better than the hero of the book accidentally falling into a princess’s lap?
Of course, because of lighter-fare fantasy novels, I thought Elayne would join him immediately and pretty much only be Rand’s love interest.
It’s amusing to look at myself twenty years ago, reading The Eye of the World when no others in the series were out and trying to guess where it would go.
Have you read the Malazan series that they’re rereading on Tor? What do you like/not like about it?
I’ve read some, and was impressed, but not enough to say more.
I’m now onto the last part of The Eye of the World . I’ve mentioned before that I, personally, find this the roughest part of the entire series.
Worse than books between Lord of Chaos and Winter’s Heart ? Really?
Yes, honestly. I’ve mentioned before I don’t have the problem with those that others do.
Do you mean roughest as in not well written? I love that part, I find it so epic (especially when the Creator talks to him). [Note: this is Dovi Joel’s assumption.]
None of it is poorly written. In fact, some of the scenes—such as the Ways—are wonderful.
It’s just that it seems like we have a different book, with different goals, starting on us here.
The climax for The Eye of the World doesn’t completely click for me. I like the Ways, I like the Blight, but the entire package feels too sudden.
We spend the entire book with Tar Valon as our goal and Ba’alzamon as villain. Now, the Eye is the goal and two Forsaken are villains.
Personally, I think this is due to RJ planning books 1-3 as one novel, then discovering it was too much and creating a break-point.
To be fair, I feel I had some of the same problems at the end of Mistborn. Powers manifest that I could have foreshadowed better.
One of the great challenges as a writer, particularly in fantasy, is to learn that balance of foreshadowing vs. pacing.
And I would think, foreshadowing effectively vs. giving away too much.
Yes, exactly.
For those curious, I’m reasonably sure books 1-3 were one novel at first. Tom Doherty, CEO of Tor, told me in detail of RJ’s WoT pitch.
He pitched a trilogy, but the first book ended with Rand taking the sword (that wasn’t a sword) from the Stone (that wasn’t a stone.)
The sword in the stone!!! How on Earth did I miss that? :shame:
Lol. I missed it the first time too. And things like Caemlyn, Egwene, Gawyn, Galad, Merrilin. I at least got Artur Hawkwing…
Ever feel like RJ removed any possibility of borrowing from any mythology ever again? He seemingly hit ‘em all buffet-style.
Actually, I’ve felt that very thing.
I’d heard that one reason that WOT is so long is that Tor asked RJ for “more books”, and he thought they meant “more WOT”.
That’s not actually true, from what I know. Tor never pushed RJ for more books. He was allowed to what he wanted, as he wanted.
People are noting George R.R. Martin expanded A Song of Ice and Fire also. RJ and GRRM are similar types of writers: http://bit.ly/e59ox0 Search for ‘gardener.’
I’m am more of an architect than a gardener. I do more ‘gardening’ on character, but I plan world and plot very extensively.
Did RJ have a cluster of concepts, themes or concepts written down in his notes? Mindmaps? To create his story’s “garden”?
Yes, many.
What do you think of the literary method of foreshadowing by saying something is impossible to do or will not occur?
I think it can work very well. RJ certainly did it quite a bit. You need to be somewhat subtle with it, though.
You know, Lan’s backstory is a lot like Superman’s.
Isam = Bizarro?
Lol.
Does Lan still have the locket from his mother? It was never mentioned again after The Eye of the World .
That is an excellent question.
It’s interesting to see how much Loial adds to these scenes. His personality is a balancing factor; calm, knowledgeable, not arrogant.
And yet, Loial disappears in the end game. Please bring him back for the finale!
The Wheel Weaves as the Wheel Wills, and I do as I must.
Is it hard for you to still enjoy the series now that you are “behind the scenes”?
I think I enjoy it more, now, actually. Though I am a little sad not to be able to read new WoT books when everyone else does.
Reading about the Green Man makes me think of the Jordancon costume contest. Look for him in these pics: http://bit.ly/fovZdi
One of the Forsaken attacks Lan. Nynaeve’s response: Charge in with a knife. That always amused me.
Also, the foreshadowing in this sequence is brilliant. The Green Man speaks of things that become important thousands of pages away.
No, I’m not going to tell you what the VOICE at the end of The Eye of the World was. Lots of people like to ask, though.
Rand, at the end of Eye of the World . “Oh, I won’t ever touch it again. Not if I have to cut my hand off, first.”
The book ends with a short Moiraine viewpoint. That makes four VPs in this book by my count. Rand, Nynaeve, Perrin, Moiraine.
What philosophies have influenced WoT? I feelt a bit of the Hindu Creator, Preserver, & Destroyer …
…with Lews Therin an avatar of preservation and Rand the Destroyer…
Who destroys the world when it is beyond preserving, only to create it anew.
I see a lot of that too. I’m convinced RJ blended something from most major philosophies and mythologies into the books.
Some friends and I are making a tournament bracket for monsters (194 total). We have three Darkhounds vs a Myrddraal. Thoughts?
New or old Darkhounds?
Huh? Is there a meaningful difference between new or old Darkhounds?
:)
So readers should expect new nasty winks from the Shadow, aye? It’s as if Osan’gar is alive again making creatures.
At least during the Age of Legends, Aginor (later named Osan’gar) did create new devilish creatures.
Yes, and they no longer have Aginor. But I wouldn’t say that means there won’t be anything new.
Brandon is probably hinting with that last that Aginor had nothing to do with the new breed of Darkhounds. The new ones can do the Terminator II thing and reform after being chopped to pieces, and the prevailing theory suggests that this is because Slayer has been creating them in Tel’aran’rhiod , so they have some inherent properties of the Dream World. They probably cannot be killed by anything short of balefire. The old Darkhounds are nearly as tough—Moiraine used balefire to kill the ones that chased them in The Dragon Reborn —but Perrin managed to kill one after shooting it a few times.
Pardon me if this has been asked a million times but what did you find heartbreaking to write in Towers of Midnight ? Noal? Aiel future?
Aiel future, all the way. And the death of a certain character related to Perrin.
Possibly a RAFO, but will you find A Memory of Light to be even more heartbreaking to write?
It WILL be heartbreaking, if only because it’s the last. I can’t say if it will be heartbreaking for similar reasons or not.
How could Verin write that note if she hadn’t taken poison yet?
An excellent question, one I’m surprised I haven’t seen talked about yet. (Though I’m sure it has been.)
Basically, it’s for the same reason that an Aes Sedai can kill if she puts herself into a situation where she’s in danger.
It involves mental gymnastics and lots of requirements. In the end, she put so many on that the note didn’t get read.
What would have happened if someone were to balefire Verin’s cup of poison to remove its existence when it was consumed?
So far, I believe we’ve only see balefire used to remove living things from the Pattern that way. Am I wrong? @Terez27
There has been some serious debate over Nynaeve and her boat. Some think the rowers caused…
…the temporal anomaly, while some think it had to be the boat itself. I forget the arguments…
I remember the argument now. The boat was filled with water at the moment of balefire, which rowers don’t explain.
Over a month later sleepinghour discovered an old letter from RJ to a fan in which RJ confirms that inanimate objects do get burned back just like living things. I suspect now that Brandon knew this from the notes, though, and that’s why he used the words ‘so far’ and redirected the question to me. This was probably one of those things that Brandon and Maria had to piece together from the notes, and from the wording of his following tweets I’d be willing to bet that Maria won an argument.
We just found an old letter from RJ to a fan in which he confirms that balefire DOES burn back inanimate objects in time.
Thanks to @sleepinghour for that. Though I know this probably drives you crazy, lol. It’s almost like retcon!
Well, good to know. You’d think he’d mention some of these things in the notes…
I know, right? lol. Wasn’t it you that said that he didn’t put many things in the notes because he kept it all in his head?
We observed @Theoryland that your descriptions fit his claim better than his own descriptions re: inanimate objects.
And your assumption about living things only fit his descriptions perfectly…aside from the stupid boat!
Yeah. We get lots of fragments of things he jotted down, but they are more notes to himself, so he leaves things out.
On to The Great Hunt today. #Superstars slowed me down over the weekend, but I’m ready to jump back into it.
The The Eye of the World prologue is the series’ best, but the one in The Great Hunt today (the ‘Darkfriend social’ as fans call it) has always been a favorite too.
This scene is the first one that made me start to try to figure out who was a Darkfriend and who wasn’t.
There are no Ogier mentioned at the Darkfriend social. Does that mean there are no Ogier Darkfriends?
RAFO.
It’s much discussed, but if you haven’t noticed: Darkfriend social has Aes Sedai, then we learn Moiraine had been mysteriously absent.
RJ was very sneaky. This sent the WoT fandom into huge circles of wild-goose-chasing, many thinking Moiraine was a Darkfriend.
Do writers really think about the fan conspiracy theories that much when writing? Seems like J. K. Rowling did a bunch. Do you?
RJ certainly did. I do on occasion. Depends on the book.
“Most of the men at Fal Dara accepted Rand…some seemed unable to forget his being an outlander. Masema was the worst of those.”
heh. Because Masema thought he was an Aiel! But yeah, the host of series-running characters introduced early…
…is well-played. Many in The Eye of the World , more in The Great Hunt today . I have wondered if Bunt was RJ’s choice or yours for ‘Apples’.
Someday, I may answer that question.
RJ said in the 2002 Wotmania/Dragonmount Q&A that Ogier can be Darkfriends, but he did not confirm that there are any.
Moiraine’s plan was for Rand to take Illian first. She’s the only Aes Sedai I know to say he needed to go off on his own for a while.
I have considered and contemplated this thought, I think Moiraine remembered that to truly control saidar you must surrender.
That’s a very good way of looking at it.
I have six chapters left in The Eye of the World , should catch up by tonight. What scene are you most looking forward to in The Great Hunt ?
I love the ending. Probably that.
While doing your #wotrr, notice the metaphors. Loved RJ’s style there. Not noticed in new book. Great though. Halfway so far.
Every time I try to do a Jordan-esque metaphor, I fail, so I remove it. It’s an aspect of his style I can’t imitate, I’m afraid.
Aw man, I believe you’re not giving yourself enough credit, but I’ll respect it. Thanks again!
I’ll keep an eye on it. Maybe I’ll figure it out. But often it’s better to do things in my style rather than to poorly imitate RJ.
Will you attempt to move closer to RJ’s descriptive style in A Memory of Light ? You were close in The Gathering Storm , but departed from that in Towers of Midnight .
I’m afraid I knew from the beginning that I couldn’t imitate RJ’s style. I try in some ways, but I am not him.
I will write the book the best way I know how, but will not be trying to imitate RJ. I WILL strive for character voice accuracy.
Well, the descriptive style is a central feature of WoT. I don’t think being more descriptive would constitute imitation.
I’m asking because your narrative style was much closer to RJ in The Gathering Storm . I was surprised to see you move away from that in Towers of Midnight .
Oh, I see. You don’t mean “Describe in the way RJ did.” You mean “Please describe more.”
Do you take notes, besides twittering, during #wotrr?
Many.
Can you put all of your notes online somewhere? Come on, that’s easy…right?
Lol. Those would have so many spoilers in them it would cause several people’s heads to explode.
Nynaeve knitting in Fal Dara is just not her. All later books are on how she can’t sew and yet…
…in The Great Hunt she knits. Is there any explanation in RJ’s notes as to why?
There might be an explanation for that, but it would be buried so deeply that…yeah. I’ll let you know if I happen across it.
Remember, though, there are three million words worth of notes.
Oh, Rand. You’re such a…a…well, teenage boy in some of these chapters. Also, a wool-headed fool.
Hide in fear, paranoid that the Aes Sedai want you…then the moment you think Egwene might be in danger, out you go, sword in hand!
I often equate writers and stage magicians, using misdirection, foreshadowing, and false leads to keep a plot interesting.
If you want a great example of this, watch how RJ hides a certain traitor in The Great Hunt in plain sight, yet keeps you misdirected.
Much has been made of Moiraine thinking of Mat: “He is not necessary with the Horn gone.” (This is long before he’s blown it.)
I think it’s a lot of fuss over nothing. Her plan was to have Mat, eager for adventure, draw Rand into carrying the Horn south.
Foreshadowing some probably missed in The Great Hunt chapter seven. Prophecy of the Shadow found in the prison: “Which hand shelters? Which hand slays?”
(For further reading on that foreshadowing I mentioned, look for a chapter titled “The One He Lost” in The Gathering Storm .)
Ah yeah, I remember reading it now. Seemed to me to be more of a poetic connection than a real one, though.
I phrased that badly, but I don’t know if I would have put it in the ‘foreshadowing’ category. Maybe ‘retroshadowing’.
The connection there is poetic. The foreshadowing isn’t of that moment, but more the concept.
I think I pretty much figured it out before he responded—it makes a good deal of sense in reference to his Lews Therin dilemma and the dilemma of his harem. I tweeted about all that but Brandon responded to my first tweet, so I spared you.
Yes, there is other foreshadowing in the books that I’m not telling you about because it references A Memory of Light .
I will hopefully catch some of those, though I’m bound to catch a few red herrings as well. :)
I just passed a big one in The Great Hunt .
haha, and you know I will be scouring the pages of your vicinity looking for it. :D
My first guess: Mat is immune to Fain’s dagger. (chapter seven) Second guess: foreshadowing of Cyndane’s importance in A Memory of Light .
Nope and nope. It’s a very innocent line, and I won’t tell you more than that. You’ll spot it once you read A Memory of Light .
Third: Slayer’s role in A Memory of Light . Fourth: Perrin puts on a crown and speaks in High Chant. (the crown at least seems likely)
Brandon was responding to my first two guesses, not the third and fourth (as you can see by clicking on the link for his ‘nope and nope’ tweet, which should show the specific tweet he responded to). He almost certainly saw guesses three and four, but he didn’t comment on them.
Readers, let’s go HCFF on an “innocent” comment by @BrandonSandrson re: an A Memory of Light foreshadowing in The Great Hunt , discuss! http://bit.ly/gMZvLI
I’ve seen someone post on the innocent comment before, FYI. In fact, it was recent.
And Terez has sniffed at it before, I know.
Do you mean sniff as in turn my nose up at it? Or as in I got in the ballpark? Important distinction.
Also, I do not sniff.
“Sniff” as in I’ve seen you poke at the line before, and ponder if it has meaning.
I don’t think that Brandon follows me around on Theoryland, and knowing that I haven’t really ‘sniffed’ at much in these chapters, I think it’s most likely he is referring to my fourth guess: the line about Perrin wearing a crown and speaking in High Chant. The update to the glossary entry on Saldaea in Towers of Midnight seems to be another hint in that direction, and of course, Min had a viewing of a Broken Crown for Perrin in way back in The Eye of the World . In order for this to be fulfilled in A Memory of Light , both Tenobia and Bashere will have to abdicate or die (as it was also confirmed in Towers of Midnight that Faile is second in the line of succession).
Unless I’m missing one, our first Egwene viewpoint in the series is the way into The Great Hunt . She is our fifth viewpoint character.
Point to @RajivMote: I DID miss an Egwene viewpoint. In “Ravens,” the new first chapter of The Eye of the World in the Young Adult repackage of the WoT books.
Sixth, if you count Bors and the five seconds of Moraine at the end of The Great Hunt .
I already counted Moraine. Not Bors, though. I’m talking Viewpoint characters, which means characters who commonly have VPs.
Fortune prick me, a Domon viewpoint. Don’t know if I’ll count him as the sixth VP character, though. We don’t return to him frequently.
But you counted Moiraine who only shows up once in The Eye of the World , once in The Shadow Rising , and twice in The Fires of Heaven .
She’s got a ton of VP time here at the beginning of The Great Hunt .
She has exactly five VPs in The Great Hunt . She has exactly nine in the whole series (not counting New Spring ). That’s only three more than Fain.
I’ve been asked who was behind the plot to see Domon dead in The Great Hunt . It was Hamlet, obviously.
I’ll count Fain as our sixth viewpoint character (or, maybe he’s fifth and Egwene is sixth.) I love the scene where they find the dead Fade.
Your Inquisitors in Mistborn always made me think of that Fade. Sorry if I’ve said that before; I can’t remember, lol.
Yes I think there’s got to be some kind of unconscious thing going on there on my part. (Re: Fades and Inquisitors.)
Bors/Carridin had four POVs , while Thom only had four before A Memory of Light , and Domon also had four, but all four were in The Great Hunt .
Any thoughts on my “Mat is Gaidal Cain” theory? His time with the snakes/foxes makes me wonder.
Do you REALLY want me to weigh in on this?
Absolutely! Though I’m likely to get a RAFO ;)
Well, as I remember, RJ said that Olver was too old to be Gaidal Cain. If Olver’s to old, then Mat…
He’s certainly going to be late to the Big Show if he was naturally born after Olver.
Gaidal has been reborn, and I do know who he is, and he is younger than Olver. (Sorry.)
Not sure if this was asked but have we seen Gaidal Cain reincarnated “on screen”?
RAFO on Cain, I’m afraid.
Stupid question: What sword was Rand wearing in The Gathering Storm ? It was implied that he knew its story.
It was Justice, Hawkwing’s sword. The real one—not the one ghost-Artur was wearing at Falme. ;)
And it’s not a stupid question because there was some debate over it before the word was leaked at Dragonmount .
Many thought it was Guaire Amalasan’s sword, and it may be that they were right, and that Hawkwing kept it as a trophy.
That might explain the scabbard, which we know is the original scabbard. And another Excalibur parallel in addition to Callandor .
I haven’t answered that, I don’t think, but fans have a couple of really solid theories.
I like this answer. It fits with the assumption that Hawkwing kept Amalasan’s sword as a trophy.
Brandon did confirm that Rand’s new sword was Justice in an email with his beta readers, but there was apparently a bit of controversy over the revelation so the beta reader who leaked it deleted their post and the incident gets glossed over a bit by Brandon.
Regarding that ‘minor query’, I believe Bili is the same Bili (Mandair), Moiraine aided back in New Spring , chapter six.
RAFO on Bili and Nieda. Sure has been a while since we’ve seen them, eh?
One reason the WoT’s world works so well is that there’s a logic to the magic and the magical (yet non Power-related) abilities…
However, RJ didn’t try to tie it all up too neatly. For a very big world, with lots of history, this helps keep it from being stale.
Speaking of magical non-Power related abilities—whatever happened to sniffers?
Still around. Hurin was in The Gathering Storm .
Some very telling moments in the conversation between Ishamael and Rand in the Portal world of The Great Hunt .
Do you have first editions of the early books?
A lot of them. Not hardcovers. Jason gave me a trade paperback of The Eye of the World signed by RJ. I think my first hardcover is The Dragon Reborn .
Re-reading The Gathering Storm —I know I’m a silly Cadsuane lover, but I really don’t like the The Gathering Storm Cadsuane and Tam scene.
Not because Tam gives Cadsuane the verbal slap down, but because Cadsuane’s stupidity in this scene cheapens Tam’s victory.
What should have been Tam’s greatest moment is merely cathartic for those who hate Cadsuane.
I know that she was off balance with worry about Rand—but even so, Tam defeating Cadsuane in her prime is a brilliant moment lost.
You mean you wished she had clever retorts?
No, actually. I think in the face of Tam’s accusations Cadsuane would have openly agreed and accepted his reprimands.
Cadsuane has never been afraid of facing the truth.
In short, her response to Tam’s verbal attack was out of character? Hmm, I would have to reread the scene myself.
It was out of character, yes. Cadsuane’s been mostly out of character since the beginning of The Gathering Storm .
In my opinion, of course. :D Still, i feel The Gathering Storm and Towers of Midnight between them were to be the books were Rand came to equal Cadsuane.
Instead Cadsuane was made less, and it makes Rand’s achievements and shut downs of Cadsuane seem small and petty.
He did not even have a mission like Cadsuane did. As I said—cathartic to those who hate Cadsuane, but not good scenes.
Re: Cadsuane’s oddity in The Gathering Storm . Maybe you could point this out to @BrandonSandrson, and see what explanation he could offer you.
Maybe Cadsuane’s strength of character was sacrificed for plot’s sake, or for that scene’s sake. Just maybe.
I actually did ask @BrandonSandrson about Cadsuane. And Harriet. Got a fairly similar response from both.
For those unfamiliar with Twitter, this is the point at which Brandon was made aware of the conversation, as his name was invoked.
My question was: “I think one of Jim’s strongest talents was the writing of strong women, and arguably the strongest is Cadsuane…
…She is the character that fans seem to either love or hate. I’m curious as to your thoughts about her, and her role in the story.”
Harriet’s answer was “Cadsuane has an important role, for sure.”
@BrandonSandrson’s was “The fact that people are so passionate about her means that Robert Jordan wrote her the right way.”
If Cadsuane’s strength of character was sacrificed for plot it’s bad writing, and I don’t think Brandon would do that.
I think this might be a downside of @BrandonSandrson having been a fan beforehand. The exultation of likeable characters over…
…..unlikeable characters. Egwene in the Tower is endemic of this. (though, I loved that anyway @BrandonSandrson. I’m a hypocrite).
I seem to have been on a negative line of thought tonight. Be aware I love your work on WoT and my quibbles are just that.
I like her, though Verin intrigues me more. God forbid that I should call that scene “bad writing”, but I feel that for Tam to dominate the scene, Cadsuane was made to respond that way.
I disagree. Something along the lines of this would have worked. … (follow link to see a bit of fanficciness from Luckers) http://tl.gd/88d5tl
If @BrandonSandrson wasn’t a fan, though, he wouldn’t handle the books with deepest care like he does. Professionally, still, but not affectionately. :)
I agree absolutely that @BrandonSandrson’s fanhood serves him well—I would not have seen the series written by…
…someone who wasn’t a fan, and the depth of his devotion to this series is VERY clear.
This is but one point where is was disadvantageous (in my opinion) against a sea of advantages.
Agreed. And a non fan would treat the greatest fantasy story of the decade as a mere job (whatever the results of @tordotcom’s sff poll, I don’t care. I’m muley that way).
I’m curious what you think about my portrayal of that scene?
Ok, having compared the original with yours, I must say…yes, the original scene portrayed Cadsuane as being much colder than she necessarily is. Then again in defense of Brandon (why would he need it of me? I’m too full of myself), I think Cadsuane in that scene was someone who felt that she wasn’t being respected and valued despite all her efforts for Rand. But yes, the verdict is: that’s out of character.
Ha. I’m afraid that I didn’t have a chance to follow all of that. I’m not going to object to Luckers having…
…strong opinions here, though. I don’t see him saying anything that I can disagree with, except that we see things…
…differently. Poor Cads was at her wits end in some of those scenes. She was pretty sure she’d doomed the world.
Note that the fan/non fan as writer argument is a good one, and one I’ve mentioned myself. This is what you get.
I try hard to not let those things influence me unduly—but if they do, I (by definition) won’t be able to notice.
Lol. I would have been surprised if you had got through all that. We went a bit crazy.
Curse you Luckers, now I have to document all that because Brandon commented on it! lol…
Hahaha. I’m so gonna look like a douche by the time you’re done Terez. *sigh*
My problem with the ‘doomed the world’ concept is that I reckon Cadsuane would still be there with a stern…
… frown as the world burns. Indeed we see her willfully risk the world at the cleansing. There is…
…the matter of degrees obviously. I dunno. My love for the old woman may be leading me astray. *sigh*
And I am very much aware that most the fandom disagrees with my opinions on Cadsuane. She’s just my girl. :D
Among the older members of the fandom, many agree, actually. But @BrandonSandrson ‘s explanation re: her growing exasperation…
…was the explanation I came up with for myself at the time (though I still lean toward ‘out of character’ a bit).
That’s the price for me documenting all that: my opinion. :p For example, Wetlandernw and Freelancer from tor.com agree.
Odd question, is it possible in the WoT universe, for there to have been a world where the Dragon was a woman?
RJ said that gender was a ‘soul attribute.’ Meaning, souls were reborn as the same gender.
RJ addressed this in the CNN chat of 2000, again in Leiden in 2001, and at an unknown signing from around the same time (maybe a different report from the Leiden signing).
To write, “The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass…” for the final time—any thoughts?
I’ll try to do a post when I do it.
Grolm make me think of the plush grolm Baby Meatloaf has. (It was a hand-made gift. There’s a pic on my twitter feed somewhere.)
Ah, nice. @Terez27 dug up that picture I posted of Baby Meatloaf w/his stuffed grolm . Aubree [Pham] was the one who gave it to him, I think.
Here he is: http://twitpic.com/1hvhsi Man, he had curly hair back then.
No, Rand. Lady Selene isn’t suspicious AT ALL.
Did RJ ever explain her trick? I know she enhances her appearance, but is there an element of light Compulsion to it?
As far as I know, she didn’t use Compulsion.
Memory’s vague on this but why doesn’t Lews Therin recognize Selene? Mirror of mists? Lews Therin not aware yet?
So far as I know, Lews Therin wasn’t ‘aware’ yet. At least, not enough for something like that.
Lots of responses Re: Rand and Lady Selene. Let me say this. Yes, Rand is being a wool-headed fool. But I remember being that young.
I remember when I realized the prettiest girl I knew was also a huge jerk. It was a stunning revelation. Yet it took two years to make.
Rand is not the first teenage boy to have trouble seeing the obvious in a situation like this. In fact, it would be odd otherwise.
Egwene to Elayne on their first meeting in the White Tower, right before meeting Min: “Rand seems to meet a lot of girls.” Yup.
First Min viewpoint is at the halfway mark to The Great Hunt . I’m always amazed by how many viewpoints we get before Mat gets one.
I have to look back a long time, back almost twenty years, to remember that originally, I saw Mat as a side character—and this is why.
I’ve always felt that Thom should be more surprised, excited, or…something to see Rand again here in The Great Hunt when they meet.
In The Eye of the World [Lews Therin referenced] pride for believing he could match the Creator; how important is that for the world’s salvation in A Memory of Light ?
It’s all part of the Pattern, and it’s all important in one way or another.
I’ve always wondered if it’d be viable when traveling the Ways to leave night, sleep in a random location outside, and go back in.
Maybe time in the Ways is compressed as well as distance? I can’t recall if we have enough detail to say.
We have plenty of evidence that time is compressed. People seem to move slower when looking out from inside.
Good point. So then it depends on how big of a hurry you are in, I suppose.
I always feel that the chapters Egwene spends as a damane will last longer than they do. The pain feels like a full book’s worth.
Another example of RJ’s excellent use of foreshadowing is how he depicts Ingtar all through The Great Hunt . This often impresses me.
Climbing the wall to escape: “Ingtar cursed when Mat tossed the Horn of Valere…Mat snatched it up,’it isn’t even scratched.’”
Yes, I have finished The Great Hunt . I’m spending a little time outlining now. Lots of work to do there.
Trom is the ONLY smiling, joking, and nice Whitecloak we meet… Ever.
That’s a good observation. As a side note, I’ve always been fond of Trom.
Sorry to vanish from Twitter the last couple of days. Tor has requested Alloy of Law revisions by the 14th, so I need to get those done.
It’s sooner than I’d have liked, and I’m still creeping my way through The Dragon Reborn when I have spare moments. Will continue the #wotrr soon.
Given how RJ went to great length in an attempt to synchronize his plotlines before the finale, don’t you feel that you had…
…an obligation not to destabilize the chronology the way you ended up doing? With all due respect, I think time has shown…
…that it was a massive mistake structuring The Gathering Storm / Towers of Midnight the way you did. Which is a shame, since your WoT-writing is GOOD.
I’m afraid I don’t follow you. The plotlines weren’t synchronized in previous WoT books .
I realize there may be disagreement, and am not offended by it. But I maintain that the structure of The Gathering Storm / Towers of Midnight is the right one.
I only had two choices with The Gathering Storm . Have a book more like Crossroads of Twilight with lots of slices of all characters, but without complete arcs for any…
Or do what I did, and make a Rand/Egwene book and a Mat/Perrin book with some time jumping.
Of course, this wouldn’t have been a problem if it would have been possible to do a single, 600k word volume.
No, but the books showed that RJ was trying to synchronize the plotlines for the finale—sometimes at the reader’s expense.
This, combined with RJ’s statements that the finale would need to be one book, suggests to me that he had a very strong wish…
…to tell the final part of the story in a more traditional chronological manner. Of course, this couldn’t be published in…
…one volume, but the story still could’ve been told the way RJ wanted it to be told. The story just loses so much due to…
…this division. Take Rand and Perrin’s scene at Dragonmount, for example. I feel these scenes were MEANT to be told in parallel.
…as opposed to one year and 500 pages apart.
I believe that a slow The Gathering Storm and fast-paced Towers of Midnight would’ve been by far the best choice from a literary point of view.
This would also lead to fewer continuity errors and better coherence in terms of both themes and action.
The biggest mistake, for me, was the insistence on publishing before you had the full overview, i.e. before you had written…
…the whole part of the story that needed to be divided. The result is a structural mess far worse than Crossroads of Twilight . No offense.:)
What annoys me is that you write WoT so well that this could’ve been a spectacular ending if told the way I feel RJ wanted.
I would very much like to hear what you think about this. I’m disappointed at the way this was done, but mean no offense.
No offense taken. You have some points. For the Hardcore breaking the book mid-story may have been better.
However, the average WoT fan would have found those books a much less rewarding experience.
In a perfect world, we could have delayed another year and just released them one after another, two months apart.
Then I could have cut the books as you suggest. That wasn’t viable, however, because of the constraints placed upon me.
One of those constraints is that The Gathering Storm HAD to be a homerun. It had to be extremely powerful, not slow.
It had been years since a WoT book, and with a new writer working on it…well, we just couldn’t have a slow half-book.
I agree with having complete arcs in The Gathering Storm but why interweave chapters in Towers of Midnight ? Why not catch up first? (interested, not cross)
I tried to do so, but the book was feeling ‘off’ by sticking Perrin’s narrative all at the front. Beyond that, chapter one had to be Rand.
Why did Rand have to be in chapter one? To me, knowing he was alright pretty much killed the suspension of the other characters’ threads.
Hard to explain. It was simply the place that scene had to go.
Both novels gave us closure for some plots, instead of The Gathering Storm giving us none. For what it’s worth, I think you did great.
Thanks. I didn’t think it was that hard to follow. The only potential problem is Tam.
Tam was the biggest problem for the more casual fans, but the hard core fans tended to have a bigger problem with the separation between Rand’s and Perrin’s points of view at Dragonmount. But you had something similar with several groups experiencing the cleansing of saidin , in one way or another, in Crossroads of Twilight .
Everytime Valan Luca talks to Nynaeve, I picture Pepé Le Pew. Is this normal?
Uh…
My coworker has The Way of Kings cover for his desktop background. He’s read it two times. Wants to know if WoT is worth his time.
I think it is, very much so. Tell him that the WOT is not a quick read, meant to be rushed through.
Some books are a feast to be consumed quickly and ravenously. The WoT is a long, stately dinner with many courses.
I’ve always liked the title of The Dragon Reborn. I think it’s one of the best in the series.
This is because it is interesting to those who haven’t read the WoT, but interesting to those reading it for different reasons.
Every time I see the Young Adult book EON: Dragoneye Reborn , it makes me wonder if she ever heard of Robert Jordan.
Yeah, I thought the same thing. Not to mention that “The Dragon Reborn” is actually a full-blown trademark.
Has it been tough to make outline so far for A Memory of Light ?
Yes, and no. The toughest part is making certain everything is in the right place.
That’s understandable. One more quick question for now. Will there be any big twists in A Memory of Light that will surprise people?
Surprising Wheel of Time Hard Core Fans is…well, it’s hard to decide what will surprise them. But there WILL be twists.
If all of the Forsaken were sealed in the Bore, and the Madness came after that, how can the prologue of The Eye of the World happen?
I mean, Ishamael is walking around and talking and channeling, shouldn’t he not be able to do so?
…unless the whole thing is a vision of Lews Therin’s madness?
That was really Ishamael, not madness. He wasn’t sealed in as strongly as the others, remember.
Kaladin’s situation in Bridge Four reminded me a lot of Egwene’s in The Gathering Storm —did you think of this at all writing either?
Though the Bridge Four situation was written first many years ago, and the Egwene situation was RJ’s and not mine, I DID notice.
Is the situation with the Black Tower addressed/resolved in the final WoT book?
RAFO. :)
Still working away at The Dragon Reborn . Will be going to the dentist for checkup soon. I might get some reading time in there.
So, I got recognized four times today while out. Feels strange. If it happens so often to me, I wonder how often it happens to a real celebrity
Dude in the next dental stall, I apologize for how your hygienist jumped when she heard my name…then left you with mouth open as she ran over.
Do you mind it, or do you prefer to be left alone?
I honestly don’t mind; it’s just a little strange.
You probably need to think of an alias. How about Sander Brandson, or San Branderson… *grins*
I’ve half been tempted to write a book as “Sand Branderson” before.
Wondering if you have tried the audiobooks, and if they do not suit your purpose, why?
I have; I like them. But I like reading on the page better.
Could you please indicate with a hash tag what book you’re on during the #wotrr #TGH as it were.
I give indications now and then. I can’t add a hashtag for each book as I already feel I’m low on characters for my tweets.
You know, I remember thinking Nynaeve was jumping at nothing when suspecting a certain Aes Sedai following the Gray Man attack.
Any clue you can give us on who sent the Gray Man to kill Egwene and Nynaeve in The Dragon Reborn ? I’ve always wondered about that.
I’ll get you an answer to that someday.
I’m finding Nynaeve less annoying as her character develops.
She’s always been my favorite of the Elayne-Egwene-Nynaeve group.
By Falme in The Great Hunt , I wonder if Fain is more Mordeth than Fain? He mentions having access to a leader of men, again…
Yeah, I noticed some things like that too.
Finally, the first Mat viewpoint comes almost 1/3 into The Dragon Reborn . It just doesn’t feel like the Wheel of Time to me until Mat is himself.
Amanda on Facebook points out that it was good RJ waited to give a Mat VP; if it had been earlier, he’d have felt less awesome.
This is a good insight; dagger-tied Mat was frail, paranoid; that might have tainted perception of him strongly if we’d had a VP.
I have always felt that in The Eye of the World Mat was just baggage, in The Great Hunt he was a McGuffin, but in The Dragon Reborn his story truly starts.
Agreed.
Siuan to Mat: You remind me of my uncle…died pulling children out of a burning house… Will you be there when the flames are high?
This feels like a perfect place for him to step to center stage, as this is the book where we lose Rand for the first time.
Wait, we lose Rand!?!
He’s not in the third book very much. He comes back in the fourth.
Do you have any insight into how at the start of The Dragon Reborn , Rand appears more ‘mad’ than he was at the end of The Great Hunt ?
He is doing a poor job of dealing with having killed a person for the first time.
Brandon might be speaking from the notes, but I rather thought it had more to do with the fact that he was proclaimed against his will by the heroes of the horn, and by his battle being broadcast for all of Falme. He was trying to resist saidin and failing, trying to figure out what to do with it and failing, and Callandor was calling him in his dreams. Who knows what else was in his dreams. He was channeling tainted saidin , and suffering from the unhealing wound given to him by Ishamael (presumably with the True Power). Turak played a part in the downward spiral, but I don’t think it was really the catalyst. (Though knowing Rand, it was probably a convenient thing to dwell upon so as to avoid having to dwell too much upon the rest.) And of course, Turak was not the first person he killed, though Rand apparently didn’t realize he killed Aginor (this has actually been debated) and the men in Four Kings.
I hear you loud and clear! I love when [Mat] first learns about his Luck. Was RJ method writing it feels real watching Mat?
RJ was a ‘method writer’ in many ways. He very much got into a character. Harriet tells stories about it.
@josephpeavey asked me to share a story about RJ “Method writing.” Well, Harriet had a great one…
She says she’d catch him slinking into the house, walking with a different mood. She knew he’d been writing Padan Fain that day.
You know what I’d like to see? A massive, fan-annotated WoT project, like the footnotes at http://bit.ly/7vrgs7 only more extensive.
The guys at EWOT said they were going to do this, which makes the most sense because they’ve done all the detail work on the individual chapters already, but it’s slow going with only two people on the job. It will no doubt happen one day, but alas, not soon enough to aid Brandon on his quest.
Any chance your blog will start posting copies of your tweets and replies to questions? I loved reading those and miss them.
It will continue to do that; I haven’t been tweeting a lot lately, so we haven’t been posting them. There will be more.
Will there be a signing with Harriet in Utah anytime soon?
She is planning to come to Utah for the A Memory of Light tour.
Baby Meatloaf is very helpful when doing a WoT reread. He keeps bringing me various objects and toys to, you know, use in reading.
I was just wondering, was there a reason Egwene let Tiana go and chose a new Mistress of Novices?
There were several reasons. One, however, is that she wasn’t doing a particularly good job.
Notice the resonance between the dreaming ter’angreal and the silver arches in The Dragon Reborn chapter 22. A hint of things to come in Towers of Midnight .
Reading Egwene’s prophetic dreams in The Dragon Reborn and smiling at the ones about Mat that recently saw fulfillment. What a long wait. :)
To think, I read this book when it was first published. I was 15. I’m 35 now. I just got to have a hand in seeing the fulfillment.
It’s so strange to read these early books, where Egwene is still thinking of Rand half-romantically. And Galad full-romantically.
Wow. The Dragon Reborn chapter 27 has a cool little foreshadowing for the end of A Memory of Light that I’d never noticed before.
Oh, Wondergirls. After severe punishment for leaving the Tower without permission, what’s their first thought at hearing the Black Ajah is in Tear?
You know, I’ve always been amazed Mat didn’t end up causing more trouble with that letter from Siuan he was given…
The scene of Perrin at the forge in Tear is one of my outright favorites. People often ask if killing characters is tough…
…Yes it is. But writing the Towers of Midnight scene with Perrin and the hammer he got here in Tear was more emotional for me than most deaths.
I have finished The Dragon Reborn (finally) on my re-read. Next up, my favorite of the books. The Shadow Rising .
From questions I’ve gotten at signings, people still seem confused by the black threads/cords sometimes attached to Forsaken.
I thought this clear; that these were the means by which male Forsaken avoided the taint. Is there still uncertainty on this point?
RJ said in interview that they were protection from the taint but he also said at one point that…
…they were the conduits by which the True Power could be accessed (if they had permission). [He also contradicted himself on that, apparently.]
There may be a tad more to the cords that RJ didn’t state, but I will say that one major reason is the taint protection.
Man, this Shadow Rising ebook cover really is full of awesome, isn’t it?
Mat looks so dark; it’s a very stark contrast to his personality.
That was one of my first thoughts too, but he does get grim once in a while. Particularly after being killed…
Another one for the “Huh, never noticed that before” file. Some Aiel tell Mat is death for him to enter Rhuidean. And they’re right.
Are they?
By Mat’s perspective. Though he’s not 100% sure.
Wait. No. Mat does not die in Rhuidean, does he? I thought his death came when Rahvin strikes him with lightning.
Mat thinks it counts. Of course, that whole Rahvin thing isn’t something he remembers…
You know, chapter one of The Shadow Rising reads a LOT like the prologues in later books. Lots of side viewpoints, scattered about.
I’ve always liked how these set up a book. I do think they fit best as prologues. (Some of my favorite writing is the Knife of Dreams prologue.)
Love or hate Faile, remember this: She got Perrin to grow his awesome beard. Almost as cool as Rand taking the Stone, that.
Last #wotrrr tweet for the day, and it will be a longer one. (Slight spoilers.) Thought I’d point this out, as it has often struck me. (I doubt I’m the only one.) There is a lot of symbolism to the bubble of evil sequence at the start of The Shadow Rising . Perrin’s axe tries to kill him—pretty obvious there. We see through the next books how that happens in a non-bubble-of-evil way. We also see that the way he grows single-minded in some pursuits, including fighting with that axe, has dangerous implications. Interestingly, it’s Mat’s gambling that tries to kill him—that and the Amyrlin. Another great thematic bit of foreshadowing, though Mat—being Mat—doesn’t have an arc of discovery in the same way as Rand or Perrin. The best one for me is the fact that in Rand’s case, it’s his own reflections that try to destroy him. He only wins when he figures out how to absorb all of those reflections into himself.
“In a moment…he would become the Dragon reborn again. For now, he only wanted to sit, and remember a shepherd named Rand al’Thor.”
It’s good to have Rand back in this book. I remember reading The Dragon Reborn for the first time and begin confused as why he wasn’t in it much.
In a way, all of Mat’s trouble with the Finns can be traced back to Egwene telling him about the stone doorway.
Honestly, Egwene, what did you THINK would happen? Telling Mat about that is like telling a kid there’s a surprise in the cupboard.
I think I either need to speed up the re-read or continue working on the book as I read. I think I like the second option better.
I’ll be shooting for 60 pages of reading a day while trying to finish at least one scene a week. The variety is more appealing.
Another reason why I find Nynaeve one of the WoT’s most rational characters: compare her and Lan in Tear to Perrin/Faile or Elayne/Rand.
As I often post, the way Perrin/Mat/Rand/Egwene view her distort our perception, but the facts prove her side of things more often.
Unable to look at Elayne, she started walking again. “You had every right to laugh. I… “ She swallowed hard. “I made a complete fool of myself.” She had. A few sips, Theodrin said; a cup. And she emptied the pitcher. If you were going to fail, better to have some other reason than that you just could not do it. “You should have sent for that bucket and dunked my head until I could recite The Great Hunt of the Horn without a mistake.” She risked a glance from the corner of her eye. Small spots of color rested in Elayne’s cheeks. So there had been mention of a bucket.
“It could happen to anyone,” the other woman said simply.
Nynaeve felt her own cheeks heating. When it had happened to Elayne, she had dunked the girl to wash away the wine. “You should have done whatever you needed to… to sober me.”
It was quite the oddest argument Nynaeve could remember, with her insisting she had been a total fool and deserved whatever came of it, while Elayne made excuse after excuse for her. Nynaeve did not understand why it felt so refreshing, taking all the blame on herself that way. She could not recall ever doing that before, not without hedging as far as she was able. She very nearly got angry with Elayne for not agreeing that she had been a childish buffoon. It lasted until they reached the small thatched house on the edge of the village where Logain was kept.
“If you don’t stop this,” Elayne said finally, “I vow I’ll send for a bucket of water right this instant.”
Nynaeve opened her mouth, then closed it again. Even in this newfound euphoria of admitting she had been wrong, that was going too far. Feeling this good, she could not face Logain. Feeling this good, it would be useless anyway, without Moghedien and the bracelet she definitely felt too fine to put on.
And of course, all that was to justify the rough treatment she gave Elayne in Tanchico.
Surely Egwene’s more rational even than Nynaeve, even in the way she deals with Gawyn despite KNOWING she’ll bond him.
Looking at Egwene/Nynaeve’s interactions in these early books, Egwene still has a lot to learn. She gets there.
They have very different perspectives, though, which often brings them to arguments. Nynaeve sees people; Egwene sees goals.
Nynaeve the rational one? In her relationship she has the power. Leaving Lan at Land’s End was iffy. Her need for respect is childish.
Well, she DID save Lan’s life in what she did. He’d have been dead before the Last Battle started if not.
I’m still sad Lan apparently dies. He was my favorite character.
Out of curiosity, which of the reasons people think he will die is the one that has persuaded you? I’ve not said either way.
Confession: I stopped reading at book seven. My friends said he hadn’t come back, so I/we assume he’s really dead, not fake-dead. [?]
This Thom scene in The Shadow Rising chapter 17 is an absolute gem of writing. Wonderful characterizations, excellent motion, powerful reversals.
Guys, when I talk about how to write a great scene, THIS is what I mean.
Notice that the Siuan mentions that the Blight is retreating in this chapter. Hmmm… Wonder why…
I remember reading somewhere that some think this was an effect of the Eye of the World’s usage. Hmm…
Brandon is probably hinting here that it rather has something to do with the Fisher King prophecies.
Thom, speaking of how future ages may see him: “Not a gleeman—but what? Not eating fire, but hurling it about like an Aes Sedai…”
Will you believe that, in my youth, it wasn’t until around that moment that I caught the Thom/Merlin connection?
Don’t feel too bad. I didn’t catch the Mat/Odin connection until very recently. And Perrin is Thor, it seems. heh.
I believe there’s actually a Slavic god of the forge named “Perun” or something along those lines.
Thom/Merlin connection? I don’t see it.
Look really closely at Thom’s last name.
Here’s a question: Why does Elayne (and RJ in an interview) say that Galad fancied Nynaeve when he clearly fancied Egwene?
Especially considering that RJ said “at the beginning”… I could imagine Galad having liked Nynaeve in Samara but that’s it.
Interesting. I honestly didn’t know that he’d said that re: Galad/Nynaeve. Will you send me a link to the quote?
I saw it in at least one other interview as well. Can you open this link? If not I’ll copy paste x http://ow.ly/4ijHn2
I’ll save the link until after I get off the plane. Thanks! I have real trouble keeping track of all these interviews.
When Egwene dreams of Perrin, Faile and “a Tinker”, why didn’t she know it was Aram although she knows him personally?
The dreams aren’t always that specific. She might not have seen a face, or recognized it.
I’d have to look at the specific passage to know which it is.
[after looking at said passage] That is an oddity, I’ll admit. But dreams are not always clear, as I’ve said. I lay my bet on his face simply wasn’t clear.
There are good reasons for that—for example, Aram’s place in the Pattern may not have been as set as Perrin’s.
A fuzziness to accompany the uncertainty, so Egwene couldn’t recognize him. After all, she doesn’t describe the face.
I think Brandon might have been trying to drop hints about the dream of Egwene being saved by a Seanchan woman (the sword is as solid as the stone, but the face wavers). Sometimes fuzziness in dreams doesn’t mean any uncertainty; Bair and Melaine couldn’t see Aviendha’s, Elayne’s, and Min’s faces in the dream where they were on the boat with Rand, but Nicola’s Foretelling confirms that they are the three. (Foretellings are absolute, while dreams show only possibilities that can often be prevented.) Perhaps a better question is, why didn’t Egwene remember anything about Perrin being a Wolfbrother in The Dragon Reborn ?
Timeline wise, was Aviendha’s meeting with Nakomi in the waste before or after Verin had met with Egwene and died?
Ha. It seems everyone wants to know if this is possibly Verin. There will be timestamps in A Memory of Light to let you guess.
There are enough existing timestamps to show that Verin can’t be Nakomi. But I don’t believe timestamps in Towers of Midnight .
So far as I know, there are no timestamp errors in Towers of Midnight . I have a solid timeline from people better at such things than I.
There COULD still be mistakes, but I think the book is more accurate than people assume because of the Tam issue .
I don’t mean Tam issue. There are for example clouds breaking in Caemlyn in Chapter 8, way before Rand’s epiphany on Dragonmount.
That’s a good note. I’ll fire that one off to Team Jordan and see if we made an error. Got any others?
People are asking for info about the WoT LARP at Vericon. It was written by several members, and was very extensive.
It was set 500 years before the book series, and involved the political situation around a Shadowspawn invasion and a false Dragon.
As I understand, the Darkfriends won. The Amyrlin got stilled and the new one unwittingly picked Black Ajah as Keeper.
Can you help me understand what the LARP project you spoke about is? I was intrigued.
Live Action Role Playing. Basically, people take the roles of characters in the game. (Warders, ambassadors, and Aes Sedai.)
Then they play a game where they try to achieve different goals. Like a much more extensive “how to host a murder” game.
I’ve been wondering this for a while. Will other authors ever be allowed to tackle outlier novels in the WoT world?
Also, was there ever a plan to tell more the backstory of Tam al’Thor?
Unlikely. Team Jordan feels strongly that WoT shouldn’t be come an endless franchise.
There is a slim chance you will see Outriggers and/or prequels. (One of those was about Tam, by the way.)
This conversation starts off with some of Brandon’s thoughts on the lack of female ta’veren in the story, which apparently inspired some knee-jerk posts on Twitter and Facebook about sexism in WoT. Which inspired a mild overreaction on Brandon’s part, and so on, which led to a lot of discussion on semantic distinctions and the like. But it was fun. The greater (and latter) part of the conversation took place when Brandon happened to be on an airplane with a choice between reading WoT and hanging out on Twitter where some HCFFs happened to be online. [That is, people who have spent the last ten years or more (in this case) thinking about WoT more than most things, and who in this case included a gay man and a (quasi? pseudo?)-feminist.] It is, for the most part, what some might perceive to be politically biased, so I offer an apology on behalf of all of us for what might appear to be PC-ness and conservative-bashing.
I remember the first time I heard the Egwene/Nynaeve/Elayne trio called the “Wondergirls.” I’m pretty sure I was in Korea at the time.
I’ve often gotten questions from people asking if Egwene was ta’veren . Obviously not, as Siuan would have seen the glow of it.
People seem to wonder why all three boys, and not a single one of the girls, are ta’veren . I’ve assumed this was to confuse the Shadow.
To make it difficult to track down Rand and kill him before he grew powerful, the Pattern made three ta’veren to keep everyone guessing.
Of course, it can be argued that the Pattern doesn’t do such things—it simply IS. Still, I’ve liked that as part of the explanation.
Why the hell would the Wheel want to confuse the Shadow? :S The Wheel is good nor bad, so it won’t choose a side.
Think of it this way—yes, the Pattern simply IS. But evolution simply IS as well. And some times, species evolve to…
…have many offspring in order to increase the chances of survival. Likewise, we have three ta’veren . A survival mechanism.
Weak analogy? If evolution==Pattern, you’d need “Evolution IS, and evolution itself has DMs.” Pattern doesn’t have species.
Ha ha. I didn’t say Evolution==the Pattern. I was showing an amoral, natural function could create something similar to three ta’veren .
Man, people sure are quick to accuse RJ of sexism on my Twitter feed & Facebook. I think any who do this are blatantly wrong.
It’s okay to not like the books, or to think RJ did a bad job with characterizations. I disagree, but everyone’s tastes are different.
But he took great pains to create many strong female protagonists with a variety of strengths, and gave them their own stories.
I’ve picked up some funny male bias in the books (lots of “breasts”, no male equivalent, etc.) but wouldn’t say RJ’s sexist.
Yes, I’ve noticed a few of those too.
Yes, there are (More than a few) sexist people in the WoT. And the culture has been influenced by the male/female interactions of the Power.
However, if you look at the time devoted to female viewpoints—and the plots of those characters—the “RJ is sexist” theory erodes.
Warning: Long update on this topic. As a nod to those who truly know feminist literary theory, I’ll make a less “Twitter friendly” argument. Robert Jordan, by creating a world where the women and men are very aware of gender roles, spent a lot of time delving into these topics. I’m convinced he was aware of male privilege, and though biased—as all of us are—sought very hard to overcome his own biases by creating evocative female characters with plot lines that do not center around the obtaining of favor or romantic interest from male characters. He also sought to create a world where women were not defined by how they were viewed by men, but were instead defined by their intelligence, determination, and accomplishments. In this way, though he exposes some small masculine biases in various areas, he was extremely progressive as a dominant male writer of his era, and should be regarded as anything other than “sexist” for his efforts. /Scholarly Brandon
Agreed. Hey, how much more “Scholarly Brandon” is online? Seen your postmodernism in fantasy essay, besides that?
Not a ton. I’ve had to walk a fine line, as I’m not enough of a scholar to trust myself digging too deeply.
I’ve got a Master’s, so I can talk the talk—but when others spent their time in research, I spent it practicing writing.
I think I have an essay or two on my website. Search for “Sanderson’s First Law” and my religion essay regarding Elantris.
I didn’t read all of the conversations you had about it on Twitter and Facebook, and I didn’t really have gender roles in mind so much as other things. I understand what you’re saying about how his world requires certain gender imbalances—I addressed that sort of offhandedly in my post by saying that the ‘in practice’ roles in WoT are often not what you would theoretically expect considering the circumstances. And while RJ often made comparisons to various time periods in the real world in reference to technology in particular, I’m not talking about that—I’m talking about the theoretical result of the history of the WoT world. Many of the gender imbalances are logical, but many are not, which is why they don’t feel realistic at all to many readers.
The main problem I had with your comments is that you said that anyone who accused RJ of sexism for whatever reason was ‘blatantly wrong’. You sort of trivialize those things that we are ‘left with’ after cutting away the complex and subjective debate over gender roles, but those things we are left with are so pervasive in the novels that they give an overall impression of an old-fashioned and often casually sexist man behind the curtain. This is a big turn-off for some people, and while I feel that those who cannot overlook it are missing out on one of the greatest stories of all time, I understand that it is a legitimate complaint.
As for the female nudity…just no. :p I mean, I know you read all the interviews at one point. ‘No Male Nudity’ (NMN) was not quite as popular as RAFO, but it was definitely one of his favorite stock answers (especially in reference to movie questions—it was his ‘one rule’) for a good few years. He was pretty blatant about his preferences there, and while I’m sure he had several cultural influences in mind, in the end it’s pretty clear that he just enjoyed writing about naked women more than he enjoyed writing about naked men.
I agree that it’s wrong to judge RJ as a person anachronistically, but at the same time, I think it’s wrong to make such a blanket statement about the veracity of our claims of sexism in WoT. It’s there, and it’s real. I agree that some people take the criticism too far without considering certain things—I’ve had these debates (on non-WoT forums especially) many times over the years—but it seems to me more constructive to criticize the exaggerations, or to criticize each argument on its own merits, than to denounce any and all claims of sexism in WoT in one fell swoop.
The “Blatantly Wrong” comment was for those who don’t really know feminist theory or gender studies, and who were commenting that sexist characters and culture implied a sexist Robert Jordan. I thought better of it later, however, for the people who actually know what they’re talking about. Hence the more scholarly comment directed toward people like yourself. I do not deny that there are things to talk about here. Remember, just like with the word “Racism,” there are two meanings of the word “Sexist.” There is the knee-jerk usage by people who intend it as an insult. And then there is the more thoughtful, careful usage by people who make a study of such things. In their hands, ‘sexist’ means showing one’s biases and a lack of awareness of certain aspects of male privilege or gender sensitivity—using this word to describe someone is not an insult, but a description of bias. (The types of biases that we all have, and can’t totally expunge—though we be aware of and try to compensate for them.) My first comment was directed at the first crowd; my second comment at the second crowd.
For the record, I’m hardly well-read in feminist theory. I’ve read far more in queer theory (and most of it since then, for unrelated reasons), and queer theory is often tied up with feminist theory, but even there I’m far from an expert, and so my familiarity with feminist theory is along the lines of a vague acquaintance. I understand the distinction Brandon is making, and it’s a good one, but I don’t think of it as having much to do with feminist theory.
And, looks like I have Twitter on my flight again this time. So much for getting anything useful done…
Re: NMN. I’ll give you this point in regards to Rhuidean. No good reason for Aviendha to be nude when Rand/Mat don’t have to be.
As for the Aes Sedai ceremonies, they still feel very similar to sacred feminine ceremonies I’ve read before.
Sure, but most of the female nudity comes in the sweat tents and baths, etc. Though the baths in Fal Dara were egalitarian.
The descriptions of how Aviendha squats in the sweat tent, for instance, are really quite vulgar if you think about it.
But you don’t see anything like that in the bath scene at Baerlon, for example. And even ritual nudity can get vulgar…
…like Amys at the sister-bonding ceremony in Winter’s Heart . I mean, come on.
There’s certainly lots o female iffy WoT nudity, but also quite a lot of male nudity—especially Rand being ogled.
Yeah, Rand does get ogled once at least. But it’s a matter of balance in my opinion.
Greatest Cadsuane line ever: ‘I’ve already seen more of your hairless bottomcheeks than I wish to…’
‘….but if you want to flaunt them in front of all six of us, perhaps someone will enjoy the show.’ :)
I’m not saying that the nudity issue is balanced—clearly, it’s not. But at least some effort was being made.
Yeah, @BrandSanderson and I have gone round a bit on this already. We all recognize that some effort was made. Just saying…
…that these things were the product of RJ’s heterosexual male preferences, and therefore inherently sexist.
Based largely upon the male characters being prudes. Doesn’t that cut the other way for M/F sexual experience?
Not really, since the root cause is still RJ’s brain. And Mat. Is far from a prude.
But we’re at the same time not trying to make RJ out to be particularly sexist. He wasn’t, especially for his Age.
*nods* I’m more saddened by the almost complete lack of gay WoT characters—but that’s just my personal bias.
No, it’s not just your personal bias. It was RJ’s. If there hadn’t been lesbians you probably wouldn’t care, eh?
I actually found the whole issue of some women being “pillow friends”, but then growing out of it and mooning over men, quite off.
Right, and the fact that the ones who don’t grow out of it are for the most part evil bitches.
There are SOME implications of being gay being equally as normal, as outlined here http://ow.ly/4imXS
Oh, we know. But it’s a half-hearted implication. Not even close to half really…
Well, at least there wasn’t the “Gay=pedophile” implication that some fantasy of the era made…
Of course, being Mormon, perhaps I’m not the best qualified to speak of someone’s treatment of LGBT issues.
Are you sure the nudity doesn’t play a practical role in the ter’angreal ? I note that in both the…
…Accepted rings and the final test the woman must be nude. Strange, two separate rituals taking the same form.
And Moiraine, too. I think it’s probably the rings. The other testing ter’angreal all require nakedness.
Aviendha doesn’t have to be naked when she goes through the columns. Although I thought they could have told…
…them to take off their clothes once they’re in Rhuidean; don’t see needing to taking them off before.
It’s not a requirement of the ter’angreal according to them, but a sign of station (humbling).
Also, with Aviendha, there was the practical aspect of giving up her cadin’sor .
It’s the same with the raisings at the Tower—they never wear those clothes again if I remember correctly.
I suspected I was half wrong when I posted this, and I was—the Accepted get their new dresses right after the test, but in New Spring , Moiraine and Siuan wore their Accepted dresses to swear the Oaths.
I think Terez’s argument is that women end up in these situations suspiciously more often than men.
Essentially yes. And that the description is more gratuitous. RJ could have chosen to write male nudity rituals.
Mmm. True, but as I’ve argued in the past re: lack of gay men—we’ve been more exposed to all female…
…organisations and rituals. the one exception, I suppose, is the sweat tents, but again that occurred…
…organically. The Wise Ones were planning, and the sweat tents provided a social medium.
By the way, my original point was simply that Moiraine and Aviendha’s nudity may have served a practical purpose…
…when going through the ter’angreal —Mat and Rand didn’t go through that ter’angreal after all.
It’s strange that the Aes Sedai and Wise Ones separately built nudity rituals around similar ter’angreal . Necessary?
Organically? You say that as if the scene wrote itself. RJ chose to use female sweat tent scenes, female nudity.
Even if the nudity does have a practical purpose that doesn’t change the fact that he chose to write it that way.
He chose to develop the female organizations, and he chose to show lesbians outside those organizations rather than men.
He chose to write the scene with Rand naked and being eyed by a dozen women too. So what?
Again, it’s about balance. The ‘suspiciously more often’ bit. I feel you are being overly defensive about it.
Are we to presume he did it lasciviously? To titillate? This is what I meant by it happening organically.
I’m not being defensive—rather I don’t see the problem. The female nudity was never vulgar… it just was.
As I said, it’s clear enough he just enjoyed writing about naked women and lesbians more than he enjoyed…
….writing about naked men and gay men. It’s fanservice, but I don’t think he thought of it like that.
I’ve got to side with Terez on this one. It IS there. RJ did a LOT of things with great equality, but…
…when it came to nudity, he liked showing naked women more than men. I don’t think it was vulgar, though.
Depends on your definition of vulgar. RJ was very good at avoiding vulgarity on the surface, but hinting at it.
I had this scene from The Fires of Heaven in mind, and it sums up many tweets I made on the subject which were omitted:
Moiraine, seeming slight and small beside the others, also looked unruffled, although sweat rolled down her pale nudity and slicked her dark hair to her scalp, with a regal refusal to acknowledge that she had no clothes on. The Wise Ones were using slim, curved pieces of bronze, called staera , to scrape off sweat and the day’s dirt.
Aviendha was squatting sweatily beside the big black kettle of hot, sooty rocks in the middle of the tent, carefully using a pair of tongs to move a last stone from a smaller kettle to the larger. That done, she sprinkled water onto the rocks from a gourd, adding to the steam. If she let the steam fall too far, she would be spoken to sharply at the very least. The next time the Wise Ones met in the sweat tent, it would be Egwene’s turn to tend the rocks.
Egwene cautiously sat down cross-legged next to Bair—instead of layered rugs, there was only rocky ground, unpleasantly hot, lumpy and damp—and realized with a shock that Aviendha had been switched, and recently. When the Aiel woman gingerly took her own place, beside Egwene, she did so with a face as stony as the ground, but a face that could not hide her flinch.
To call these descriptions ‘gratuitous’ is, of course, only in comparison to RJ’s (incredibly rare) treatments of male nudity (and not in comparison to, say, GRRM).
@BrandSanderson I still think that implies a little too much premeditation in the depiction, but I’m happy with your description.
I’m not denying its presence, I’m denying the implications that the depiction is wrong. It flowed naturally…
…from the plot, and wasn’t lascivious. I certainly don’t think RJ worked to include it.
Besides… if you wanna have a gay male character in A Memory of Light I’d not complain. :)
Okay then. Do you think that RJ’s insistence that there be no male nudity in the films was ‘organic’?
I was wrong about the film distinction, though I do believe there is an older report somewhere mentioning this that I am missing. However, there is a ‘no male nudity’ tag for all the times RJ mentioned it at signings; it was a running joke for him.
That is where this little debate started, because it is essentially the proof of the point.
Ha. Well (though I’m on your side) it could be argued that’s a marketing decision.
LOL. Many things could be argued. Some arguments are more logical than others, though. :)
I didn’t know about this insistence. That’s a little… weird, honestly. No, ok, a lot weird.
See, if you had actually read my debate with @BrandSanderson we wouldn’t have to catch you up. ;)
It’s cultural, unfortunately. You can have female nudity and get a PG-13. But not male. Of course, that…
…leads us to the whole topfreedom debate, which ISN’T something I really want to get into.
It doesn’t necessarily lead there. Again, I bring it up mostly for cultural awareness reasons.
That’s really stupid—but does make some sense. Also, I don’t know if you remember Terez but for a while there were…
…some fairly rampant pockets of homophobia amongst the fandom—I had this discussion with @zemaille at WorldCon.
I had the same discussion with Linda before Luckers did, at the previous JordanCon. I think she was a little shocked by the number of people at tor.com who refuse to even recognize that pillow friends are lesbians.
There still are. It’s mostly visible at tor.com—some staunch conservatives there.
Oh yeah!
Which is unfortunate considering Leigh’s views. There is a ruckus every time she brings it up.
*nods* And as sad as it is to think that RJ was wary of this—it’s reasonable to avoid alienating your fans.
Well, if he was trying to avoid alienating THOSE fans he wouldn’t have included lesbians either.
Mmm. Lesbians have always been the safer homosexual depiction—which says a lot about our society.
In the end, you’re indicting modern Western society, not RJ himself. He knew what you can’t do and sell.
The first bit, yes. The second bit…I don’t think that marketing was his only motive.
There’re people who are not morally opposed to homosexuality, are fine with reading FF, but not MM for what it’s worth.
And that is exactly the problem that is being addressed. Not judging RJ so much as ourselves.
I hesitate to ask—but what’s topfreedom? My mind went to an icky place. :S
LOL. I imagine it has to do with the fact that men can go shirtless but women can’t.
OH! That’s… much nicer than what I was thinking. Hehe.
I will say this, though—the complete lack of any sort of hetero-normative assumption in WoT gets RJ my vote.
I wish this plane would let me use Tweetlonger to jump into this with more teeth.
Feel free to jump in with teeth later. We’re not going anywhere. :)
Yes. More teeth would be awesome! But we aren’t going anywhere.
This whole issue—homosexuality, conservatism, and the WoT—deserves a serious, thoughtful post.
I just can’t do that in 100 character bursts.
Cool. I am looking forward to it.
I respect that Brandon. Still, post what you want—we understand it’s not your full argument.
I will say that there IS a gay male in Towers of Midnight , placed there on my part as I felt similar to you on this issue.
I was going to tell you who it was, but figuring this out is the sort of thing you guys love, isn’t it?
YAY! But of course, then you have to be careful not to make him too throw-away….
I considered Androl earlier, when I considered you might do this. lol. But I will think on it some more.
Oh. Hey! Awesome. Ok, now we have to figure it out.
Hopefully not Denezel or Hatch—their wives would be furious. :D
Jason Denzel and Matt Hatch, webmasters of Dragonmount and Theoryland respectively—they were recognized as innkeepers in Towers of Midnight .
I’ll note that references to his sexuality were cut merely because I moved the chapter with mention to A Memory of Light .
I won’t say if it’s a new character or one I made a decision on, since there weren’t notes either way.
And he seems to have ruled out Moridin, alas. But that would be sort of Dumbledore-y anyway.
(And yes, I have read @BrandSanderson’s thoughts on Dumbledore . Just saying. And we’re not talking kids’ books here.)
I’m beginning to think it somewhat strange that I’m the one defending RJ the heaviest given your points…
… and the fact that I’m gay. Does that mean my loyalty to RJ defies reason, or that I’m so used to accepting…
…the dribbles that are depictions of homosexuality in fantasy? A disturbing thought.
Nah, not weird at all. You’re pretty anti-activist in a lot of ways. Overcompensation, of course. ;)
I believe you are sensitive to the right-wing idea of the Gay Agenda.
So you seem to have a reluctance to champion your own causes too loudly, internally as well as externally.
In some ways it’s a healthy reluctance. In some ways, it’s sad that it is necessary.
Well the gays are plotting world domination—we discussed this in our last High Council. But that’s another conversation.
You have good reason to defend him, Luckers. There ARE good examples. Arrela is one.
Seonid isn’t bad either. Right? :D I think they might have been responses to the criticism.
*nods* Arrela’s love was beautiful. And your scene in The Gathering Storm was heartbreaking.
Yes, gay men are few and far between. But it could be much worse. See: Eddings, or worse, Goodkind and Newcomb.
I’m with you on that. I got bored reading Goodkind because of how annoyingly ANTI-PC it was.
In the end, I want my stories to refrain from editorializing. Tell the story, and tell it to your audience.
Goodkind is…well, let’s not go there. It’s good, sometimes, to be anti-PC, as the world isn’t PC.
But if you’re going to delve in and editorialize, I believe it important to look at the other side too.
I haven’t read Newcomb, but yes, Goodkind’s inclusion was of the worst sort.
Again, few people think RJ is all bad on this. But the fact that we are so appreciative of his rather biased…
…and gratuitous inclusion shows how far behind we are as a society.
Ha. Terez, you NEED to read Newcomb. If only because I want to see your head explode when you do.
LOL. Well, I will bring it along to JordanCon then, so you can observe. ;)
It is an incredible experience. Goodkind times 1000 in the anti-feminist department. And it seems unconscious.
Goodkind disturbs me on more levels than that, but I do take your point—it was what I meant by accepting dribbles.
The thing is, [RJ] tried. And in the end, that’s the most important thing can ask. The second is that they listen.
And I do think RJ listened. I think he grew more sensitive on this subject as time passed.
RJ was in many ways very responsive to fan criticism, but he seemed to play the Eelfinn in that he liked to make jokes out of granting our wishes. A good example: Fans complained that characters never had to use a privy while in POV. RJ added a couple of references (including an ‘if you must know’ from Tuon), and he even threw in urine-tasting in Crossroads of Twilight . Clearly that was RJ getting a laugh on us. He made passing mention of male homosexuality in a couple of the later books (including New Spring ), and while it wasn’t quite a balance for his lesbians, it was an improvement. He also made public statements that homosexuality was all around not a big deal in Randland, for either gender. He made it clear that, in general, writing about male sexuality was just a squick for him, but he tended to be rather open and modern about his sexuality (even in the family-friendly context of WoT) and so the gender bias sticks out to many modern readers.
Agreed, as I noted before re: the response to criticism. Again, it’s more about us than about him.
Interesting thought—about listening and changing. Kind of beautiful as well—that fans can give back to authors.
That RJ touched on it at all was good—especially when we remember when he was writing these books.
It does well to remember just how much the degree to which homosexuality is depicted has changed recently.
This is true. I just feel that now is the time to blow it out of the water, for that very reason.
I’m curious if either of you read Rose of the Prophet , and what you thought of it. (Because of the gay male character.)
hmm, nope, haven’t heard of it. I was told Deathgate was the only thing by [Weis and Hickman] worth reading.
To explain, I rarely find myself overly desirous of reading new books since WoT occupies so much of my time these days, so I tend to go by friend recommendations and not worry much about whether or not I would actually agree.
Do you guys realise how much Rand’s early arc resonates with a gay teenager?
A young man who—through no choice of his own—finds himself to be something hated and feared.
Something judged to be morally wrong though no moral choice has been made on his part.
The whole arc—the ‘men’s pride, men’s sin’ resonated very heavily with me.
That’s FASCINATING, honestly. I’d never thought of that.
I bet RJ never thought of it either. :D But yes, it’s a good comparison in many ways.
All of this is why I never liked Mat in my first readings (when i was like 13). His reaction to Rand was…
…a little to close to home. And no I haven’t read [ Rose of the Prophet ]—I will now though. (sorry for going on this tangent).
It doesn’t really matter to me if RJ meant the comparison—that he depicted something similar with such…
…visceral realism is the value of a great writer, because then the fans can take what they need from it.
And in truth Rand’s arc in dealing with it taught me how to. In fact its one of the reasons I love Cadsuane…
Because Cadsuane was Rand’s faghag? No wait, that was Min! No, she was his beard…
She doesn’t feel sorry for Rand, or try to coddle him—she treats him like she would any other person…
Her refusal to let Rand allow circumstance to victimize him was a powerful and subtle theme.
Indeed, that’s why I like her. And why most people hate her. Because she should respect his authoritay!
And I think it is the greatest service anyone in the books has done him. Even if Rand couldn’t appreciate it.
Re: Parallels between Rand’s early arc and being gay…[from The Great Hunt ]
“No, I can’t. I mean . . . I didn’t do it on purpose. It just happened. I don’t want to—to channel the Power. I won’t ever do it again. I swear it.”
“You don’t want to,” the Amyrlin Seat said. “Well, that’s wise of you. And foolish, too. Some can be taught to channel; most cannot. A few, though, have the seed in them at birth. Sooner or later, they wield the One Power whether they want to or not, as surely as roe makes fish. You will continue to channel, boy. You can’t help it. And you had better learn to channel, learn to control it, or you will not live long enough to go mad. The One Power kills those who cannot control its flow.”
“How am I supposed to learn?” he demanded. Moiraine and Verin just sat there, unruffled, watching him. Like spiders. “How? Moiraine claims she can’t teach me anything, and I don’t know how to learn, or what. I don’t want to, anyway. I want to stop. Can’t you understand that? To stop!”—Chapter 8, ‘The Dragon Reborn’
That desperation is something I remember. Then this…
He paused, frowning, thinking things through. Finally, he said quietly, “Rand, can you channel?” Mat gave a strangled gasp. Rand let the banner drop; he hesitated only a moment before nodding wearily. “I did not ask for it. I don’t want it. But. . . . But I do not think I know how to stop it.”
—and finally…
Mat hesitated, looking sideways at Rand. “Look, I know you came along to help me, and I am grateful. I really am. But you just are not the same anymore. You understand that, don’t you?” He waited as if he expected an answer. None came. Finally he vanished into the trees, back toward the camp.—Chapter 11, ‘Glimmers of the Pattern’
Potent scenes. Especially Mat’s last lines. *shrug*
Yeah, I knew exactly what you were talking about as soon as you mentioned it. Perrin isn’t much better.
Perrin is just not as thoughtlessly hurtful as Mat is. He’s more the silent disapproval type.
Though Perrin does realise the hypocrisy, and feel bad, so I didn’t mind so much. :)
Yes, I appreciated Perrin’s sympathy and tact—like when he said Rand is now a dreaded figure.
For instance he suggested that while running was understandable, it might not be possible.
Of course, Perrin is coming to terms with being a werewolf, so understandable he knows how Rand feels.
And with Perrin the parallel stops—Rand is a genuine threat, whereas homosexuality isn’t.
Both Perrin and Rand loathe themselves because they feel they are a threat to society.
Just got a rather abrupt tweet from someone who I think thought I was implying Rand was gay.
Which clearly is accurate. The Harem are the red herring to end all red herrings.
LOL. Yeah, well…ignorance and prejudice go hand in hand (or so they say). ;)
You know you’re gay when you need THREE beards to maintain your cover.
Lol!
And…half of my in-flight WoT reread time was sucked up by a great Twitter conversation about gender and LGBT issues in the WoT.
Ohhhh, blame it on us will you! :p You knew as soon as you saw you had Twitter you weren’t getting any work done. ;)
Haha. Yeah—I’ve written a hundred and fifty words in three hours. Today was gonna be my productive day too. *sigh*/
I have a new goal: to get Terez and Leigh Butler to do a feminist review of Newcomb’s Fifth Sorceress for Tor.com. How can I make this happen?
Sadist.
LOL. If you can talk Leigh into it, I’m so down with that.
Lol. A gay, a feminist and a Mormon walk into a bar—whereupon they have a deep and meaningful conversation about sexuality in WoT. #NoJokes
LMAO. It’s funny, though…I don’t really think of myself as a feminist. Just an equalist.
I was just being funny with the no jokes thing—the reality of us three having that conversation struck me.
Not to mention, you were raised Catholic, and I was raised Southern Baptist. Now we need a Muslim…
I just passed the Perrin/Faile in the ways sequence. Like Egwene in the leash, this one always feels longer in my mind than it is.
Funny, that we should find this—one of my least favorite sequences—right in the middle of my favorite book in the series.
Dannil just joined Perrin. If you missed it, he’s (kind of) the one who was the fourth Two Rivers boy on the cover of The Eye of the World .
Looks like Vin trounced her next opponent in the Suvudu cage match. Sorry to not do a write up; swamped over here. (more)
However, she fights Zedd (from the Sword of Truth.) For this…I will give you something. Hopefully, it will be fun.
As for Perrin vs. Paul Atreides…whew. That’s a tough match up. I pick Perrin for solidarity, but Paul is a tough enemy. Very tough.
Epic back-and-forth battle between Paul and Perrin going on over at Suvudu. I support Perrin, but agree that Paul is probably more powerful.
Vin is up against Zedd in the Suvudu Cage Match. Here’s how I think the fight would go down. http://j.mp/e8SHPL
Vin faces Quick Ben in the Suvudu Cage Match final. Perrin meets Jon Snow in the consolation match. http://suvudu.com/tag/cage-match-2011
In my mind, the redstone doorway in Tear looks like Delicate Arch. This is not rational, and not how it looks, but I can’t help it.
Delicate Arch, by the way, is a specific redstone arch in Moab, Utah. I’d post a picture, but my wifi wizardry doesn’t allow Google.
The wonderful @17thshard grabbed a delicate arch pic for you all: http://3.ly/SwCv #wotrr (As did several others.)
Wifi on my flight is not free, but Twitter works, for some reason. WHAT WIZARDRY IS THIS.
So, the airline wifi provider has a “Free Twitter” thing going on. Nothing supernatural. Too bad. I was already building a magic system…
Beginning of Chapter 36 in Book Four. The Waste is described a lot like Moab, Utah.
As of the middle of The Shadow Rising , Rand still depends on his sword, rather than channeling directly to kill Shadowspawn, in fights.
Some of the later Sea Folk are so hawkish with their trading that sometimes I forget how pleasant Jorin and her sister are.
I remember when I first read The Shadow Rising , I had NO idea what to make of Lord Luc.
Perrin’s growth as a character here between his last section and the start of Chapter 40 is very well done. Subtle, but powerful.
I like how in this case, RJ skipped some time, then jumped back and showed us the contrast. A cool way of showing growth starkly.
You know, Nynaeve, it would have been ‘wrong’ and all, but I’d totally have forgiven you if you’d just offed Moghedien in the palace.
What about Traveling? Cuendillar ? And all the rest?
I’m not following you. What are you asking about?
Oh, you mean “If Moghedien died, we wouldn’t have these things.” True, true.
But at the same time…they keep just letting the Forsaken get away. Ah, well.
Now I’m imagining Nynaeve towing Moghedien out with her and bringing her to the White Tower for justice—only to find Elaida in charge…
How did Moghedien know about sad bracelets [Domination Band]? Semirhage said in The Gathering Storm that they were made after the Forsaken were imprisoned.
I believe Moghedien said she’d been doing some research about the Breaking and had learned about them.
There’s been some debate about Moghedien’s strength in the Power since she and Nynaeve were equal in The Shadow Rising , but…
…Nynaeve hadn’t reached full strength as late as The Path of Daggers . Is Moghedien the weakest of the Forsaken?
Honestly? I’d have to look it up. I don’t know off-hand how Cyndane fits into things now. Still powerful, but not as powerful.
Cyndane is still the strongest female; that was made clear in Graendal’s POV in The Path of Daggers . Just weaker than Lanfear.
Yeah, I was mostly just curious about the considerable gap between Moghedien and the strongest female Forsaken.
There was a lot of debate on RAFO.com on whether Elayne and Egwene are close to Moghedien since she’s so weak.
This might be old news, but people keep asking me about it. Yes there ARE Dreamers among the Forsaken. Male and female.
One male AND one female Forsaken are Dreamers?
There are multiple Dreamers. At least one male and at least one female.
This might have been in response to the previous conversation about Moghedien. She and Lanfear are the top candidates for the female Dreamers, and Moridin is the obvious choice for the men, since skill in Tel’aran’rhiod and skill in invading others’ dreams seem to be concurrent with the Talent of prophetic dreams. See here for more details.
I seem to be one of the few who think that Taim is a transmigrated Asmodean; will we find out about Taim finally in A Memory of Light ?
Some things, at least, you will discover.
RJ confirmed in NYC that the Dark One wanted to transmigrate Asmodean, but could not because of how and where he died.
The Fires of Heaven had middle-child syndrome for me. Books 4-6 are among my favorites, but I always had trouble remembering what was in 5.
I THOUGHT I knew. I’d say “Oh, it has such and such.” But I’d find that was in 4. I’d try again, and end up with something in 6.
Given the enormity of the disappearance of you know who, how is The Fires of Heaven not memorable?
It’s more that books 4-6 blend together for me in many ways.
You know, Rhuidean is one of those words my mind refuses to pronounce correctly. Fifteen years of doing it one way in my head hold sway.
Everyone is asking how I pronounce Rhuidean. I always want to say “Roo-i-dee-un.” Actually, much like Druidea from Spaceballs. Huh.
To note, that isn’t the right way. #wotrr (Which, honestly, I always get mixed up, since I can’t remember if the audiobooks are right or not.) I think it’s Roo-i-deen. An HCFF out there can help. Did any of you hear RJ say it in person?
I really like Melindhra. #wotrr. Spoilers behind the link. Anyway, I like her a lot, probably more than I should. In the early years, reading the books, I was always annoyed when she died. I thought she was a great match for Mat. I DO like Tuon, of course, but remember, for those of us in the early days reading, she was still years off at this point.
Salt Lake Airport has been Brandalized. Three hardcovers of Towers of Midnight signed and one The Gathering Storm paperback. On my way to Jordancon!
Wheel of Time drinking game! Each time one of the Wondergirls wanders off alone or in a pair and gets kidnapped, take a shot.
If you do, you’ll take a shot every two or three books. So, uh, every few weeks. Okay, it’s a bad drinking game. What’d you expect? I’m Mormon. :)
Awesome dual tweet there. Well done, sir.
:)
Just wondering, do you have any magic underwear?
You do realize that what you just asked is somewhat akin to walking up to a Muslim and calling him a towelhead, don’t you?
Being a fan of your work doesn’t mean that someone shouldn’t call out nonsense when they see or hear it.
I’m not sure what you’re replying to, exactly.
Sorry, I was responding to your reply to @JosephWDye where you compared his question to calling a Muslim a towelhead.
I like your work, and I think that you are the best choice to finish WoT, but I was disappointed to find out you are LDS.
Where calling a Muslim a towelhead is more of a racist/cultural insult, what @JosephWDye said addresses a nonsense belief.
Asking, or challenging someone about their beliefs is a good thing to do. Ridiculing them is not.
I disagree. Some beliefs are so ridiculous that ridicule is the only appropriate response. And it’s often effective.
Wearing a symbol of my faith is no more a nonsense belief than a Muslim wearing head gear or a Catholic wearing a cross.
The simile is exactly the same.
Again, I disagree. A keffiyeh or cross isn’t understood to be magical in the way that the Mormon undergarments are.
There is nothing magical about them. They are a symbol of faith. Faith may be a protection, true.
Some may regard the garments as having innate protection, but some also believe a cross or Bible does.
Catholics believing that crackers and wine actually turn into flesh and blood would be similar, and also worthy of ridicule.
Ridicule is an inferior way of dealing with these issues, as it will polarize and demean. Logic and common ground serve better.
I used to think that as well, but people of ‘faith’ don’t hold their beliefs because of logic and evidence, and so…
…it is next to impossible to demonstrate to them via those avenues that what they believe is false…
Many do not [hold their beliefs because of logic and evidence]. There are some who do, however. And I think faith should be founded in experience and evidence.
Then it wouldn’t be faith, it would just be belief. Faith is belief in a proposition in the absence of evidence…
…or in the face of contradictory evidence.
Well, your definition of faith is certainly one. However, I see it more as trusting in something that has been proven to you.
If my father says, “I will come through for you on such and such” and I trust him because he’s proven [himself] in the past, that is faith.
You’re conflating the term ‘faith’ here. I’m sure you don’t have to be told that a word can have more than one meaning.
The meaning here equates to ‘a reasonable expectation based on experience’ That’s not the same as religious faith.
I am aware of the different definitions. I was trying to define my definition, not say a blanket definition.
My definition of religious faith, for myself, is exactly what you said. An expectation based on experience.
As a member of the LDS faith, who has had ample proof given to me of God’s existence—the only logical way I could believe…
I find it important to search for the real truths and to understand people who disagree with me, to see if I am wrong.
I will not go so far as to say that there is never reason for ridicule, however, as I was able to think of a few exceptions.
Ridicule can be effective in demonstrating just how absurd the belief system is from outside…
…just as all other religions are to the believer. As Heinlein said, “One man’s religion is another man’s belly laugh.”
Proper ridicule could be appropriate, couched in a form of “Look, can you see how silly this sounds to the outsider?”
However, walking up to someone and saying “You are an idiot, and this is stupid” is hardly a good way to begin a dialogue.
Well, I just don’t think that I owe much politeness to people who don’t care in the least for logic and evidence, and are…
…doing their level best to retard science education, repeal social advancements, and who look forward to the destruction…
…of the majority of mankind with anticipation.
It’s really amazing to me, having read your tweets for a while now that someone belonging to a group that was officially…
…racist until you were a child, and which has done all it can to prevent homosexual marriage by backing prop 8 is so openly..
…averse to those kinds of bigotry. And YET, you continue to identify yourself as LDS.
The greatest changes to good people are made through empathy and an attempt to understand.
Also, if I vanish, it’s because I am landing and lose internet—not because I’m ignoring you. We could lose it at any moment.
No worries, I’m about to be off for a while as well. Again, I think your writing is great, and you seem like a great guy…
I just wish we could all outgrow this nonsense, and get on with the work of making the world a better place. Cheers, Jason
We must continue to be polite and strive for common ground. The biggest problem with our discourse these days is…
…the justification where people on any side say “I no longer need to be a civil human being to these people because of X.”
Come on Brandon. I think that the biggest problem with discourse today is that faith gets a free pass. If someone tells you…
…that he believes something on faith, then he thinks that that is unassailable, and I don’t agree.
I don’t think that I am under any obligation to treat the enemies of culture with any politeness or respect…
These are the people who want to ruin science education, retard research into lifesaving treatments that could alleviate…
…the suffering of literally millions of men, women, and children, prevent homosexuals and other minorities from exercising…
…their basic rights, and in all other ways trying to roll back human progress to the bronze age. I will not stand idly by.
If you let your disagreements turn you into hatred and incivility, you become that which you hate, my friend.
(Sorry to go Yoda on you. That last bit was on the heavy-handed side.)
I think we’re both better than sound-byte platitudes. What I hate is people who enshrine bigotry and ignorance behind…
…a shield of ‘faith,’ while working to destroy everything that the enlightenment has gifted us with.
Some of the people you speak of are worthy of your contempt. Most are just…well, people.
The answer to your problems is teaching them to see the other. You cannot do that unless you can do it yourself…
Faith deserves to be challenged more than it does, and we should not be able to stand behind it as an iron wall.
I just simply believe that we all need to see one another more as human beings.
Anyhow, good talking to you, even if it is a real pain to do so in these tiny Twitter chunks.
Nice chatting with you too. Again, sorry for the Yoda. You have good arguments. But I think you’re giving in to a simplistic…
…view of “Us against them” where “Them” are always trying to destroy everything that is good or virtuous.
Oh, and welcome to Atlanta (where I happen to live).
Thanks! And thank you for reading. I’ll do my best to enjoy Atlanta.
Okay, we’re landing. Signing off from Twitter, folks, and see you at JordanCon! I have Magic cards. :)
Yes, Delta has free twitter again on this flight. I will try my best to get work done. Why is it so much more tempting while flying?
Wanna have a detailed conversation about something? We already did sexuality in the Wheel.
Seriously, its 4am here, I’m feeling loopy and sad not to be at JordanCon… I’m go for anything.
Reverse the normal vibe. Ask me questions. :P
Bad Luckers. Go to sleep, let him work.
Hush.
Well, we could get into how timid a lot of us fantasy writers are about writing black viewpoint protagonists.
It is noticeable to me. I don’t think it’s intentional bias, and if it is, it’s worry about doing something wrong.
But you see a lot of black side characters (in film too) but few black leading men.
Interesting point actually… a form of reverse-racism. The fear that you are going to step wrong.
Yes. You can read up on something called “Racefail” in the sff community from a few years back, if you want.
Google it. You’ll find some interesting points along these lines.
I did so, and yeah I see what you mean.
I do wonder if it also has to do with not having racially integrated kingdoms (as makes sense) in fantasy.
So, if you want to tell a story about one kingdom, it naturally follows that you end up with a lot of people of the same race.
Then, you add someone else to be racially diverse—but that person you add becomes, by nature, the outsider.
Which, of course, only reinforces the bias, despite attempts at being diverse. It’s a tough nut to crack.
That does make sense—though I like RJ’s futuristic blending of races. Sharan, Tairen, Seanchan—the blend has no meaning.
I’m not so sure this is completely true; it’s probably quite significant that the Empress of Seanchan, an empire despised mostly because of slavery, is a black woman (not because it’s significant in the WoT world, but because it isn’t). It might also be significant that the only other known slavery of the WoT world is in Shara, which parallels Africa in many ways, including the dark-skinned natives. The dark-skinned Tairens are unique in Randland proper for their feudalistic serfdom.
For myself, I write fantasy set in modern times—I touch on race heavily but have avoided aboriginal issues.
Which wasn’t intentional.
Often, when reading a book, I don’t know what colour a character’s skin is—it’s rarely described.
I suspect this is to do with “white” = “default”. The best exception I’ve seen is @neilhimself’s Anansi Boys.
I don’t think it’s white=default so much as caution about giving offense…at least on my part.
I often wonder if having one black character (amid a load of white characters) is worse than having none.
It’s funny, I never realised but I have no black characters in my book, and thinking about it it’s likely…
…because I’ve no idea how to write an aboriginal viewpoint. I lack the insight—though that’s wrong in itself…
…because there will be many black and aboriginal people with an upbringing similar to mine.
Tokenism, and the perception thereof, is an issue. Brandon’s revelation of a gay character in Towers of Midnight received…
…some very… heated… attention based on this.
Yeah, but the revelation of a gay anything causes heated attention somewhere ;)
This is true. My high school graduation was no exception. :P
Oh aye? Did you ask for a Gay Diploma? ;)
Made out with a guy on the dance floor… it was rather dramatic, but easier than explaining.
Yes. Tokenism is a real danger. And it’s tough to do these things without stepping into this trap.
On one side, you have GLBT readers emailing me and asking sincerely to be better represented.
Then, you have RJ saying to fans “Yes, there are gay characters. It just hasn’t been right to mention it yet.”
However, when the time is right to mention one, how do you keep it from feeling just like a token nod?
On the other hand, from the perspective of a minority that has only very recently received airtime…
…seeing anything is kind of… well, nice. I can remember being young and avidly watching Dawson’s Creek…
…for the characters who, by today’s standards, are very much tokens.
Avoiding a token nod: by not making it the main point. But even so, if he’s the only one, he’ll be seen that way.
For all that she’s a bad guy, Galina’s lesbianism was the perfect non-token introduction.
Lord of Chaos Chapter 53, her attentions to Erian….
I’m curious. Did you ever read Rose of the Prophet ? If so, what did you think of the gay character?
Haha… you asked me this last time—but no. It’s on my list now, but hard to find in Australia.
She’s also Mormon, no?
I liked them as a teenager, but haven’t read them in years. If I remember right, however, the gay character…
…falls into the “safe gay friend” category that you see used so often in film, though he has a lot more depth.
The gay man is a major viewpoint protagonist, but his sexuality is very subtle. [Tracy] Hickman is LDS, but not Margaret [Weis].
And Tracy Hickman is a guy.
Really? *goes red in the face* I’ve been referring to him as a her for YEARS.
Have you read R. Scott Bakker’s The Prince of Nothing ?
I keep meaning to read it. I think I even bought a copy. But I haven’t yet.
It’s awesome. I raised it because it has a very poignant depiction character confused about his sexuality.
Here’s a question based on ‘subtlety’—like the depiction of the black character, can an overly camp character work?
In one of my early drafts I had a camp gay man, and I was accused of homophobia… it’s kind of the same point…
As an aside, I really wish “homophobia” hadn’t stuck as the term of choice in these matters.
I guess “homoinsensitivitia” didn’t have the right ring to it.
Fear of singularity in sexuality. Sounds like Star Trek jargon.
This point came up in the flamewar that followed Brandon’s revelation about the gay man on Dragonmount (referenced earlier by Luckers). I think that the connotations of the word are independent of the word itself, and would have likely stuck to whatever word we might have used instead of ‘homophobia’ (because ‘phobia’ itself doesn’t always have connotations of hatred). In reality, there are many degrees of homophobia ranging from squick to hate, but those on the squick side tend to resent the word being applied to them as it implies a socially unacceptable prejudice.
On the gay character question, why do you think fantasy, in general, so badly underrepresents the LGBT community?
It’s one thing that deeply bothers me about a genre I love so dearly.
If I had to say, I’d guess it’s not intentional. It has more to do with what I posted earlier—authors not wanting to do it wrong.
That, mixed with the desire to create sympathetic characters—and the most simple way to do that is create someone like yourself.
I always wondered if there was any marketability concern—that books would sell less with major gay characters.
Maybe. But most writers/editors I know don’t think that way. They write the book they want to, then figure out how to market it.
I’ve had so much fun hanging out with you tonight, but its 5:30 in the morning and I need sleep.
Have a blast a JordanCon. I’m really sorry I’m not there to meet you in person.
Ha. Good night, then. Sorry I’ve been a little distracted this time.
Remind me again. You’re over in Australia, right? If so, what city?
Sydney. Same as Linda.
I’ll be there next year, if I haven’t mentioned. You, me, and Linda need to hang out when I come.
We will do this. I’m definitely going to be at JordanCon 2012 as well. Still, sad… have fun on my behalf.
It turned out that Brandon was planning on going to Australia during JordanCon 2012 (so of course Luckers changed his plans).
When I was younger, I found the Siuan/Bryne side plot distracting. Now it’s one of my favorites. Odd, that.
It might go back to the fact that, having the ending of the series in hand, I no longer feel anxious about waiting for an ending.
As RJ matured as a writer, the depth of romantic relationships grew. Mat/Tuon and Siuan/Bryne are more complex than earlier romances.
Not that I mind some of the early ones. Simple is sometimes good too. But it is a shift I’ve noticed in the books.
I dunno—Nynaeve/Lan was done in much the same manner as Mat/Tuon. And is anything more complex than Moiraine/Thom?
From their very first scene together, there was sexual tension. Read where Moiraine speaks of knowing the face of the man…
…she will marry, or when she tell Thom she will show him not all Aes Sedai are bad in The Shadow Rising . The subtlest of romances…
Maybe complex is the wrong word. Nynaeve/Lan was very well done. But it also wasn’t in the forefront.
Also, they both fell in love quickly and and easily—there are just lots of obstacles.
True. Though the scene where Rand over-hears Nynaeve and Lan in The Eye of the World breaks my heart every time.
Rand/Elayne and Gawyn/Egwene hardly spent any time together before declaring undying love.
You hit on the two basic ones that sometimes I feel lack depth in the early books.
Of course, you could argue this has to do with the age of the participants more than anything else.
Daes Dae’mar in the WoT always made me idly ponder a magic system where influence points between people were tracked magically.
Can you settle a debate? Will Rand’s soul be the Light’s champion in every Age, or could it ever be someone else?
I believe that Ishamael implies in the books he and Lews Therin have fought thousands of times.
So at least one major character seems to believe it’s always Rand. Whether he’s right or not is another question.
Brandon is reported as having said on tour that Ishamael’s and Rand’s souls are often woven together in the Pattern, somewhat like Birgitte and Gaidal.
Something fun for the #wotrr: Watch Fain. Many of you know this, but it wasn’t something I saw until I started reading about the WoT.
Where Fain goes, people start getting paranoid, and you can trace his taint on individuals through the books by how paranoid they get.
Do you mean people in immediate contact with Fain like Elaida or even people in the same town?
I’m mostly talking about Elaida and others who came in direct contact in this case.
Dragonmount has cracked Taim’s secret identity. Taim is Moridin’s son!!! Will you admit it?
I’d like to read that thread. Will you link it for me?
Here it is http://bit.ly/ep6YgF I just thought you might find it amusing.
Heya. So. Kind of harsh question—you are reported to have inferred recently that the Black Ajah and Nynaeve etc. ability to…
…to be solid and channel properly during the Dream Battle in Towers of Midnight has an explanation. Is this true? I struggle…
… to believe that given the text and my communications with Maria, and was wondering if it was misquoted?
Aight. Literally as I posted the above to Brandon, Maria replied with that this whole issue is a Read and Find Out issue. I’m a douche.
Did anyone check out the ebook to see if any changes have been made to that scene?
Don’t think so… been chatting with Maria about it and she’s not indicated any changes.
Look for an email soon; there were changes. I’m having a difficult day; I didn’t think that you might not have seen an ebook.
The differences were found and posted at Theoryland .
I need to do more #wotrr posts. I’ve been doing most of reading away from the computer these days; flying or working out. No Twitter handy.
It’s okay; we still love you. ;)
Whew. Good to know. :)
I found the bit with Luckers after I’d done the 2011 Tweets. By date, it fits here best, but the context is not necessarily significant; I can’t insert entries anywhere but at the end of an ‘interview’ page, but I can edit previous entries, so here it is.
For those asking, Red Eagle IS working on WoT video games. Those are further along than the Mistborn one. Don’t know when there will be news.
Who is working on the WoT games? I still remember playing the original PC version years ago.
Red Eagle, who have the movie rights, are developing them. They’ve got several in the works.
Really? No news on the websites.
Red Eagle hasn’t been forthcoming on the info; they don’t want to speak too soon. They are working on them, though.
I thought Obsidian were developing the WoT games? Are they doing that alongside Red Eagle?
Red Eagle is working with Obsidian, the latter having come on to help.
It is NOT polite to put major spoilers in the glossary of a book. *frowns*
Sorry. I didn’t actually write the spoiler. I instructed Asmodean’s killer to be in that entry, & Team Jordan wrote it that way…
Is it true that WoT will be reprinted with new covers once the series is finished? If so, will those be the ebook covers?
Nothing is confirmed yet. I’ve suggested it, but the choice is Harriet’s. Right now, she doesn’t want a reprint.
Imagine—WoT turned into a TV series such as ‘A Song of Ice and Fire’. Have you ever been approached with ideas?
Universal pictures holds rights. I think they’re trying for a feature film.
Without asking for spoilers, have people hit the mark on how the WoT will end? Or are the common theories way off?
Some have hit near it, others are way off. There are some major things I haven’t seen guessed.
Really, New York Times ? You couldn’t review the book without insulting the rest of the genre? Again? nytimes.com…
Also, not every good fantasy needs to be named “Better than Tolkien.” That’s like starting Broadway reviews with “Better than Shakespeare!”
It’s been fifty years since Tolkien. GRRM’s good; your reason he’s better is like putting a Lexus over a classic Packard because the Lexus has GPS.
Okay, rant over. In better news, I’m on the plane. Only what…four hours late? Off to Toronto.
Martin > Tolkien
I certainly don’t mind if people enjoy Martin more than Tolkien. There are good arguments there.
The thing is, it’s not a fair comparison for a number of reasons.
I love RJ, your own books and GRRM’s, as well as many, MANY other fantasies. I hated Lord of the Rings , and I would never suggest them.
I prefer WoT to Tolkien too—but the thing is, we all owe a lot to the early pioneers in the genre.
The problem is the tone of the article, as if implying that Tolkien was a cheap hack and GRRM is the first REAL fantasy worth reading.
Just a quick reply to a lot of the tweets I’m getting about the GRRM/Tolkien posts I made earlier.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with preferring to read GRRM over Tolkien. I, personally, would generally rather read WOT than Lord of the Rings .
But a comparison must take into account that we wouldn’t have WoT or A Song of Ice and Fire without Tolkien. That’s why the tone of the review was off to me.
What?!? I have lost all faith in you, preferring WOT over Lord of the Rings ! :P
Ha. Well, I recognize Tolkien’s genius now, but couldn’t get into it as a kid. Too tough for me, I think. Didn’t read until college.
Do you know if MacMillan is planning to make WoT Kindle books lendable?
I think that’s Harriet’s call. Next time I’m talking to her, I’ll suggest it to her.
I’m at the end of my WoT reread and was curious…did you add any plot elements in The Gathering Storm or Towers of Midnight , or is it all from RJ’s notes?
There is some I had to add. In The Gathering Storm , Egwene is more RJ and Rand is more me. In Towers of Midnight , Perrin me, Mat RJ.
But in all cases, there’s a lot of RJ in everything and some of me in everything too. It’s not clear-cut.
When Rand saved Ituralde from the Trollocs, did he use the True Power or saidin ?
Rand has resisted using the True Power except for that one dangerous moment. He can still sense it, though.
Reading Towers of Midnight , not getting the Perrin/Faile chapters. Especially the pointless Perrin/Berelain rumors. Payoff, @BrandSanderson?
If you go back to the earlier books, those were a BIG deal in the Perrin plotlines, and are a thread that was never tied up.
It’s official: Construct theory wins. http://bit.ly/opIvk4 (Sorry @BrandSanderson …sort of, anyway. :p) (It was out there, so…)
Construct theory? Should I know what that is?
Nope, it’s a secret. :p (The Lews Therin debate - real/construct; another person/delusion caused by insanity and memories).
This led to a flurry of tweets between me and Luckers, none of which Brandon responded to, but he did have to step in at one point with an email to assure us that he didn’t get in trouble with Team Jordan in any way for the GeekDad interview I linked. (It seemed the most logical explanation for his subsequent clamming up on the issue, and still does really, but it’s the official word.) It’s also at least a little bit likely that he was hedging on not knowing what construct theory is.
Regarding my first question on Gawyn (near the top), would you still answer it the same way, knowing…
…the dream predicted Gawyn’s death rather than Egwene’s? (You didn’t let me finish telling you the dream. :p)
Hm… I’m going to have to look back at that dream again. Got a page number for me?
I have hardbacks ( A Crown of Swords 10, pp 201-2), but @e_wot might be more helpful (CTRL-F ‘marry’) http://bit.ly/nCVVAB
I realized the wording wasn’t very clear on @e_wot. Here’s the full quote:
In the way of dreams she floated above a long, straight road across a grassy plain, looking down upon a man riding a black stallion. Gawyn. Then she was standing in the road in front of him, and he reined in. Not because he saw her, this time, but the road that had been straight now forked right where she stood, running over tall hills so no one could see what lay beyond. She knew, though. Down one fork was his violent death, down the other, a long life and a death in bed. On one path, he would marry her, on the other, not. She knew what lay ahead, but not which way led to which. Suddenly he did see her, or seemed to, and smiled, and turned his horse along one of the forks… And she was in another dream.
Brandon never responded (not that I expected him to), but it would not surprise me if he just didn’t remember that dream correctly. And therefore, his original answer about the Egwene dream doesn’t necessarily mean that the prophecy is fulfilled because he believed it referred to Egwene’s possible death.
I know this is a long shot but can we expect any cover art drafts for A Memory of Light soon?
Got a question from @SaintChristobel about A Memory of Light cover art. It’s in the works. I’m told it will be ready for reveal at the end of the year.
Mr. Sweet is working on it, and I’ve seen early drafts. They look good.
What kind of good? Good compared to the other WoT covers or good compared to for example the ebook Mat cover?
Good for a Sweet WoT cover. I like the design, and it plays to his strengths.
A signing report implies that you said that RJ changed his mind on whether balefire = eternal death of soul. This true?
Here is a direct link to that particular report: http://bit.ly/nKpOSS @Blindillusion13 is unable to clarify.
I always assumed what you really said (or really meant) was that you had believed it was the eternal death of the soul…
…but then when you joined Team Jordan you learned differently (you said elsewhere that @MariaLSimons had to convince you).
You have the right of it, Terez. I always believed that balefire = Eternal Death.
Team Jordan instructed me that this was not the case, and balefire meant the Dark One could not recover the soul.
Was bringing Moraine back your idea or Jordan’s?
Jordan’s.
Oh okay, thanks. It’s something that’s been on my mind for a while.
He wrote most of the Tower of Ghenjei scenes in that book before he passed away.
Can you say without spoiling who the toughest character is for you to write in A Memory of Light to end the series?
Hm… Toughest to write because of their content, or toughest because of their voice?
When you received Robert Jordan’s notes, did they include the notes he had written for earlier, already-published WoT books?
Yes, they did.
If Demandred knew about Moridin’s link to Rand, would he try and kill Moridin if he knew it’d affect Rand?
If Demandred thought he could get away with it, do you really think he wouldn’t try to kill Moridin anyway?
Wheel of time fans. Big news for you. We are going to do a great hunt this tour. Details to come on my website soon.
I will give out the first Great Hunt Code at the midnight release tonight. I will tweet how you can get it soon.
Want the Great Hunt clue? I’m thinking of a WoT character who has a viewpoint for the 1st time in A Memory of Light . Make a guess in person here at BYU.
First person to guess right IN PERSON to me tonight gets the clue. One guess each. Good luck!
Nobody has guessed the name right yet for the code. If you have a guess, and you know someone here, call them and have them ask.
So @BrandSanderson is doing #wotgh again. Don’t forget the tag. If you’re at his signing guess Taim or Logain. One or the other guaranteed.
Wrong. It was Tam al’Thor.
Do you know who got the clue?
My friend Kyle and I.
But did @BrandSanderson give you a code to enter on his website? That’s what he did last time, and it looks like it’s entered.
Well then I guess you know that gave him one then…
It has been guessed. The character with a viewpoint for the first time in A Memory of Light is Tam.
I got a picture of him with Brandon and the code, but no name.—Kerry
Here’s a pic of the clue itself: http://t.co/SWhnyD7r
I put up a blog post about the new Wheel of Time Great Hunt that kicked off Tuesday morning. http://brandonsanderson.com/blog/1032/New-Wheel-of-Time-Great-Hunt
I will have a couple #wotgh codes for the signing today. However, until then, know that several of these are very guessable…
I will give out the first Great Hunt Code at the midnight release tonight. I will tweet how you can get it soon.
San Diego airport bookstore (near Gate 35) has signed Alloy of Law and Towers. No #wotgh clues, as it is behind security.
If I do hide one behind security, I’ll pick a major hub. A former Stormleader did find me here and ask for a code. (I gave her one.)
Thanks for code #2 @BrandSanderson!! See you at the signing! =D
Code Number 2: TREES BY COUNTRY
First person who guesses the name of the first viewpoint in the A Memory of Light prologue and tells me in person gets a code.
This will be hard as they are a new character. So guess who they work for, and that will be enough.
For the clue: this person is in someone’s army. Guess which army. I don’t know if you will get it tonight.
You have to ask in person for this clue, guys.
Nobody guessed the right army. Here is a list of tonight’s guesses. http://twitpic.com/7cmqdb
Also, “The Dark One’s” army or “Army of the Light” does not count. The army’s specific name or direct commander is needed.
I’ll do some #wotgh clues for internet guessing soon. I want a few of the codes to be revealed first so you can get a feel for their theme.
Nobody has guessed (in person to me) the army the first Viewpoint in A Memory of Light comes from. Come to my Huntington Beach signing tonight & guess.
Nobody has guessed the army of the starting viewpoint of A Memory of Light yet to win a #wotgh code. I’ll post the list of guessed armies soon.
For now, I have a clue for you to try guessing a clue on-line. You might want to coordinate with Theoryland or Dragonmount on this.
Here’s your clue for the internet code (different from the army one): Felix Pax. Try your guess on the Great Hunt page of my website.
As always, @terez27 has an excellent summary page up for you all. Is there a list of failed guesses somewhere? http://bit.ly.wotgh
I took a picture of the list last night, I was just about the last person through, so I think we are up to date :)
Did you upload the picture anywhere for me to retweet?
List of armies: http://twitpic.com/7cyrd9 and there is a list of failed attempts on the same document: http://bit.ly/t4HgxV
List of wrong guesses last night for the #wotgh code. This one must be guessed in person. http://twitpic.com/7d5uu6
The army clue for #wotgh has been guessed! I won’t post it here; some don’t like spoilers. It should be on Terez’s page I posted yesterday.
Felix’s clue has yet to be guessed, even by him. People have been close, though. A hint is this: (more)
The code, which comes from RJ’s notes, uses a word that I believe was NEVER used in the series.
Many are thinking the word is “Magic.” That is the right idea—but not the right word.
Circus?
You are a very smart person. Now you need some more words to go with your guess. Input them on my site.
Invalid #wotgh codes: Circus Folk; Circus Show Folk; Seanchan Circus of Blood; Southern Circus; Circus of Winds; Imperial Circus
You are very close. It’s more simple than that. Keep trying; I view this code as being ‘yours.’
Also, it has come to my attention that people might be poking fun at you because I singled you out. If it’s the case, I’m sorry.
It wasn’t my intention; I just thought you, in specific, would be interested in this code…
Back in the US! I hid a code in the Simply Books at MSP airport gate G15. This is behind security, so get it if you are flying through.
MSP has signed books in both the G15 bookstore and the one on the middle of the C gates. (C12ish?) Code hidden in the G15 store.
Could the person who got code #6 and entered it tell everyone what it was?
Was that the one at MSP? Flying through G terminal there today.
It was at G15, though someone may have grabbed it by now. There are signed books there too, though… :)
OK, so, give us a great hunt clue :)
Ha. Okay, The one about the Aes Sedai is fairly easy to guess, I think. It even has “Aes Sedai” in it.
It also has some punctuation in it, though, of an organizational nature.
Layover in Atlanta; signed the books in the Buckhead bookstore near the center of the B Gates. I hid a code in one. This is behind security.
Just got recognized on the plane by a reader. He should have asked for a #wotgh code. Anyone grab that one in the atlanta airport yet?
Book and code acquired. Glad I checked twitter before I got on the plane!
Looks like @TheMikaus got the Atlanta code. Nice work! #wotgh. I’m off to Houston, assuming this plane ever takes off…
Ha! So a guy who recognized me on the plane must have friends who follow my posts; he asked for a code after the flight to give to a pal.
For those asking, yes I gave the dude on the plane a code. How could I not?
Off to the UK! Here’s a #wotgh clue. I said a code had to do with something Aes Sedai could do. Hint: it’d be very useful in RJ’s home town.
Those sending guesses at me need to put them into the great hunt page. Warning: the wording must be exact.
In case you missed it earlier, I’m signing in London today. Forbidden Planet at 1:00. #Wotgh is still a go, also. I have codes for the UK.
On my way down to London now!! How do we get codes?
I will have clues about them, and maybe have one or two in the store somewhere.
Thanks to all who gave me Magic cards this tour! I just built a deck w/them, & have time after my London signing. Beat me for a #wotgh code.
Okay, UK WoT fans. Time to prove yourselves. I hid a Great Hunt code in one of my books in the Waterstones Milton Keynes. Can you find it?
Just realized that I THINK the clue I left in MK is one that has been guessed. If you find it & send me a photo, I’ll email you a new code.
Has anyone found the code I hid in Milton Keynes?
Tempted to make the 200+ mile round trip to go find it if it’s still not been claimed…
I THINK it has been claimed, but nobody has said so for certain. Where do you live?
Great Hunt is still going. There are codes hidden in both the UK and the states that have not been found. I still have a few to give away.
Any chance of giving us another #wotgh clue? There are a few codes left that people seem to have gotten stuck on…
Go ahead and tweet at Peter, my assistant, and prod him. He can give you some hints.
Any talk about releasing the information on the two prologue type books that RJ originally planned to write?
We might release what they were going to be about. I don’t think they will get written.
Hey Brandon—I always thought Logain had a cool character arc. How much of him do we see in A Memory of Light ?
He will be seen. How much, or in what capacity, would be a spoiler, I’m afraid.
Are there any scenes in A Memory of Light that you think will bring fans to tears? Other than it being last book.
Yes.
Do you know if a WOT film or TV series is on the cards at all?
Possible. Universal Pictures has the rights, and I’ve visited and talked with them on several occasions.
Been hearing some rumors/wishes on Wheel of Time movies, true? if so will it be done well?
The rights have been sold. But, like anything in Hollywood, it could take a lot of time to get a film made.
Who have they been sold to? And is anyone from Team Jordan supervising? So it doesn’t turn out like Eragon did.
Universal has the rights. They’ve brought me in several times to consult. I’m sure Team Jordan will be involved.
I’ll be dong a twitter Q&A in ten minutes, using the hashtag #torchat. Most of the posts should be replies, so it won’t flood your feed.
Will Galad ever find out he’s Rand’s half brother?
Ha! You know I’m going to RAFO that.
Just how many Aes Sedai are there and how the heck do you keep track with all the similar sounding names?
I use the Encyclopaedia WoT and Tar Valon’s wiki for some help, but I rely mostly on the notes and Team Jordan.
As for how many there are…well, there are a lot. Hundreds.
How Moiraine is able to able to learn which Forsaken is in power in Tear and Illian in The Dragon Reborn ?
I believe, but am not taking the time to look it up, she used means more mundane than you’re probably expecting.
Meaning good use of information networks. That said, I’ll give a tentative MAFO and try to remember to look it up specifically.
Oh , what do mundane method do you think she used? She found which Forsaken was in power quickly and spot on in The Dragon Reborn .
She is very smart, and she knew exactly what to look for. She knew they were coming, and what they would likely do.
One good theory is that she just eavesdropped.
In #TorChat, you said that Moiraine probably eavesdropped in The Dragon Reborn to learn the Forsaken’s identity; is this a theory in Theoryland?
I don’t mean to ask whether it is a full theory (would be silly), I wanted to know whether it has been discussed in Theoryland.
I have seen it discussed at Theoryland and Dragonmount, and @zemaille might have also written something on it.
Moiraine did eavesdrop. Egwene saw her listening to Rand and Asmodean in The Fires of Heaven ‘What can Be Learned in Dreams’.
Agreed, it seems the most logical and straightforward explanation. We saw it in The Eye of the World last POV too.
Eavesdropping would also explain why Sammael detected her presence. See Maria’s commentary here .
Is Mat’s plot in A Memory of Light going to be satisfying? Is the Horn of Valere involved???
Mat will be in the book quite a bit. And the Horn must be blown (for one side or the other) in the Last Battle.
Has writing WoT affected the way you write your other books?
Some of them. I look at detail differently, foreshadowing differently, and large casts differently now.
Since the series is almost complete, if RJ could read it how would he react to your contribution to his legacy?
I honestly don’t know. I hope he’d be pleased, but I also feel he’d be sad that he didn’t get to do it himself.
Harriet has said she thinks, from above, he’s looking down and this is his reaction:
First, a “Who does that kid think he is?” followed soon by a proud “That’s my book, more or less.”
Will we ever explicitly find out who killed Asmodean?
It is stated explicitly in Towers of Midnight ‘s appendix.
Did the ending of A Memory of Light surprise you? As a reader and lover of the series and world, was it fully satisfying?
I will say I found it more satisfying than surprising. There are shocking elements, but I’d read so many theories… (more)
That it was hard to be completely surprised by anything. (Even if some elements, like Verin, did surprise me.)
Will you be able to fit the rest of Jordan’s notes into A Memory of Light , or will they be released?
There are way too many notes to fit into one book. Many will be in the encyclopedia that Harriet is doing.
Which author would you like to meet and get a book signed by him/her?
Alive? Terry Practhett. Dead? Robert Jordan.
Who has been your favorite character to write in WoT?
Perrin has long been my favorite, and continues to be one. Mat was hard, but fun.
When writing WoT have you ever read RJ’s notes and think that you would have written the plot differently?
I wasn’t totally hip on the spanking scene in The Gathering Storm . There is one other part that was tough. (Can’t say now.)
For the most part, though, I didn’t look at it that way. If it needed to be changed, I changed it—but only if the plot demanded.
I don’t look at this as “how would Brandon do it.” I look at it as “How should this work in the Wheel of Time?”
Certainly, I would have written a different series, as I’m a different person. I don’t want to impose that here, though.
Any chance of there being a biography written about RJ and the writing of tWoT?
I think there is a good chance, though if it is done, I probably am not the right one to do it.
When did Thom and Moraine’s romance develop? Came out of NOWHERE in Towers of Midnight .
It’s in there, though subtle, in the earlier books. I’ll admit, I found the engagement sudden myself.
However, fans have been expecting something there for years. RJ did foreshadow it, it was just subtle.
Has any recent progress been made on the WoT movie?
There was a script done this summer, but it went to revisions.
Do you see WoT making its way to a video format like A Song of Ice and Fire ? Or did that show hurt its chances?
I hope that show increases the chances. But we shall see. It’s not impossible, but a feature is more likely.
Would a keeping weave protect the seals on the Dark One’s prison?
No, it would not.
You’re known for your inventive magic systems—how was it using RJ’s in WoT, which is a more traditional system?
RJ’s system was very rule-based and innovative for its time. It is part of what inspired me to do the systems I do.
I’ve enjoyed it, though you will see me ‘brandonizing’ a few little things, like the usage of gateways.
Will we ever meet Elend and Vin again? Will we see more prequels/off-spins to WoT? Do you plan a trip to Slovakia?
Elend and Vin have had their stories told. WoT spin-offs are unlikely. (Sorry.) I’d love to visit Slovakia.
I’m actually reading a book about Slovakia right now, written by a friend who lived there. (It’s called Vodnik.)
You already mentioned the Perun-Perrin connection. Any other myths we should read up on before A Memory of Light ?
Oh, let’s see. Lots. The Valkyrie myth makes a brief cameo. Have a look at that one.
So Demandred will be awesome in A Memory of Light , right? :P
Yup.
Do you struggle to write Cadsuane from an unbiased perspective, since she’s not a favorite of yours?
I thought I would, but she has such a strong personality, she’s actually easy.
The ease of writing a character has more to do with how proactive they are and how easy it is to get into their head.
I’ve learned a lot about her, and about writing, from the series.
Is there ever gonna be an update to The World of Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time?
Yes, there will be! Harriet is doing an encyclopedia set to come out in a couple of years.
Regarding the map of WoT, if a place is named, as a reader, at some point I expect that place to be written about.
Actually, I prefer there to be lots of names on my maps that are never mentioned or written about.
If every point on the map is story-related, I feel it makes the map feel contrived.
I take that sentence of yours to mean, you don’t care for RJ’s map structure very much at all.
That is not what it means at all, Felix. It means only what I said. “I’m unlikely to explain places RJ didn’t give backstory.”
My reasoning being that he left them with little or no explanation for a reason, in order to be more realistic.
Realistic or easy for an author?
I guess we’re looking at it differently. I feel there are many places that haven’t been explored or had more than a mention.
Felix’s comments were probably related to this argument . But, since it’s Felix, only tangentially.
Will there be any “calm” moments in A Memory of Light or is it mostly all pure action?
There are a few. Not as many as other books. Still, there are a few.
What’s the difference between a Dreadlord and Black Ajah or Darkfriend Asha’man?
I believe that “Dreadlord” is actually a battle title, more like “general” or the like. They lead the Shadow’s forces in war.
Below are some comments recovered from downloads of Brandon’s Facebook pages, courtesy of Peter Ahlstrom.
The time warp that Tam al’Thor went through in Towers of Midnight was a bit disconcerting (time sync between chapters and different threads). Are you at liberty to say whether there will be any similar issues with plot lines in A Memory of Light ?
People are pretty much all caught up with each other at the end of Towers of Midnight , so it shouldn’t be a problem. Mat is like three days behind. Black Tower may be further behind. But I doubt there will be any characters who seem to be in two places at the same time.
Mat is probably not three days behind, since he left for Ghenjei on the same day that Perrin left for Merrilor, which was the day before the scheduled meeting.
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