Yes, early WoT is very Tolkien influenced. But several original things really stood out to me when I was younger.
1) The magic. 2) Strong female protagonists. 3) A woman ‘wizard’ figure who was far more human than others I’d seen. 4) Tam lives.
Though I like Gandalf, Dumbledore, Belgarath, & Allanon, I prefer Moiraine as a character. (Actually, Allanon always just annoyed me.)
I always liked Allanon :(
It’s okay. I’m fond of him. But he still annoyed me.
Can you share what it is about Allanon that annoyed you? I can list a few, but the main reason was his decision making…
Mostly the air of mystery and withholding information. Often a problem with people in his role, but he seemed more-so.
What about Polgara? :P
Polgara was awesome. Belgarath was pretty cool too, but Moiraine always feels slightly more real than either one to me.
But that’s modern Brandon. Teenage Brandon might have thought differently.
But which of those early wizards was your favorite? I liked Belgarath, but Eddings was one of my first series.
As a youth, I often listed Eddings as my favorite author. It wasn’t until I was older that WoT took over completely.
I agree, I still read Eddings and suggest him to people who are “new” into fantasy, but it has gone down my list too.
There is a perfect age to read Eddings, where he resonates best. As you age, something about his characters and plots…stiffens.
I am in agreement but I love Belgarath’s humor and his devotion to family and his God and his brothers.
Belgarath was interesting also in being an amalgamation of a trickster figure and a wise mentor. By far one of Eddings’ most round.
Both him and Polgara. They’re both also more powerful than Moiraine. But there’s just something about her. True wisdom.
I was thrown by your “when I was younger” remark until I remembered this series started 20 years ago. Wow.
I started when I was 14 or 15…
The WoT names always annoyed me because they’re so close to real names. Any chance of dropping a Blixbop into A Memory of Light ?
Mr. Jordan did this intentionally, to hint that the WoT world was our world in the future (and the past.)
It’s part of the ‘feel’ of the world. They are close to real names because they ARE real names, just many years removed.
The females in The Wheel of Time are among the most two-dimensional in the history of fantasy.
I disagree. Case in point: Tolkien’s female protagonists. (Which was the comparison I was making.)
But even beyond that, you have to remember, this is a society with some skewed gender relationships because of the way magic works.
But Moiraine is hardly two-dimensional. Neither is Nynaeve. They can be annoying, yes, but that’s not the same as two-dimensional.
They scheme, they argue, they tug on their skirts and stamp their feet, or they fall at Rand’s feet. Really?
Aviendha is very distinctive. Tuon is very distinctive. Min is very distinctive. Many of the Aes Sedai act as you say, but…
…I see this as an intentional effect of the society they live in.
Don’t you get annoyed with the females in WoT? The female lead I prefer is Aviendha, the rest are full of themselves.
Oh, I didn’t say they didn’t annoy me at times. I said they were strong, and I’ll add that they are interesting.
Final note. I would argue that Jordan’s female protagonists are MAIN characters, whereas Tolkien’s are mainly supporting.
The Tolkien point is valid. However, remember what started this conversation. I was saying things about the WoT that impressed me.
One was a large cast of female main characters, something a lot of fantasy by men I’d read was lacking.
WoT females are caricaturish, sometimes stereotypical, but not two-dimensional. (This from a female.)
Yes, caricatures. A better description than two-dimensional.
Well, different people read things differently. If WoT’s women didn’t work for you, I understand why, though I don’t feel the same.
You’re not the only one to feel that way.
The fact that I see them as caricatures helps me to enjoy them as characters more. It’s RJ’s own type of dry humor.
I view them more of products of a society where social norms are different, and women have something ‘machismo’-like.
It makes them act similar in places, even though when you see into their souls, there is something deeper.
In my opinion this is also true, but the caricature part is an important aspect of accepting ALL WoT characters as they are.
They, like the story itself, are ubertropes. There is more to them than that, just as there is more to the story.
It’s as if RJ’s sense of humor was written for a theater company on stage. Bombastic, perhaps?
I think the word you are looking for is ‘exaggerated’. But yes, stage-acting a very good comparison.
I don’t know if I ever saw it as ‘dry humor’. The Aes Sedai scared the crap out of me in high school.
Well, maybe now that you’re a big boy… ;) RJ said he’d rather hunt leopards…
True enough. XD
I mean, have you SEEN the map of Tar Valon ? It’s supposed to be funny, people. And serious at the same time, of course.
Haha! Just clicked on, never noticed THAT before. Hoho!
LOL Never noticed it before either.
LOL! In nearly twenty years of reading WoT, I never took notice of the Tar Valon map. Thank you for the laugh. I needed that. :-)
I’ve wondered about the map for Tar Valon. That…well, that can’t be an accident. I’ve never asked Team Jordan, though.
Needless to say, it wasn’t something I noticed when I was a teen.
Someone asked RJ about it. Sort of. His answer was hilarious.
Ya know, for some odd reason, I never really saw the map of Tar Valon. Now I’ll never unsee it…
Indeed, it cannot be unseen. :)
…wow, this really changes how I view the siege, harbor, and the iron chain becoming cuendillar .
You are such a perv, boss.
Showed my wife the map. Her immediate reaction: “Oh, Jim Rigney.” Big smile.
You’d never seen that before?
He had. Was just inspired by the moment to show it to his wife. And he’d never seen the quote. :)
I’d seen it…it was a while back; I remember thinking “really???” This reminded me and the quote made it hilarious.
Could give a whole new meaning to ‘Rand had daydreamed over Master al’Vere’s old map…’
‘…half the boys in Emond’s Field had daydreamed over it.’
To the blind… what am I seeing? I see a fish or a submarine. Is there something else?
Hm. How to do this without going places I don’t care to go… Maybe a link will suffice. http://bit.ly/gMSLt6
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