Date: 2010-01-01
Type: Verbatim
Here is an alphabetical list of names chosen, with details if given. They will be linked to EWOT pages when those are updated after the A Memory of Light comes out. The main auction for the speaking part was won by Sandip Mehta.
Eric Allen (In the Tower Guard; gets sworn at by someone who swears a lot. Perhaps Uno?)
Jesamyn Angelica
Charlie Bachelder (Aiel fighting in Last Battle)
Johnnie Lee Barrington, Jr. (Deathwatch Guard)
Paul Benish (Malkieri)
Melissa Bergevin
Jonathan Brockelman (Whitecloak)
Joff Brown (a city)
Brandon Bryant (Band of the Red Hand)
Jonathan Burt (Whitecloak)
Helen Cousins
Jay Dauro (Deathwatch Guard)
Shaun Davis
Gavin Doyle
Natalie Doyle
Daniel Egonsson
Kevin Fanshier
Jacob Figler (Band of the Red Hand)
Craig Foster (Borderlander; does not live long.)
Filis [Emery?] (Green Ajah)
Shani Gamble
[?] Gilbert , son of Chris
Courtney Gliszczynski (First name used.)
Cindy Goodman
Michael Gonzalez
Mione Haak
Laura Hayden
Laura Hepburn
Hugh Hill
Andrew Holcombe
Steven Karam
Rion Kinosaki
Einar Laastad Kjosavik (Asha’man who is balefired by a Forsaken.)
Sean Little
Nils Loodin (Aiel scout)
Glen MacDonald (Deathwatch Guard)
Sandip Mehta
Mikayla Micomonaco ( damane )
Robert Moreau
Bach Payson (Borderlander; does not live long.)
Eric Peters
Eleanor Pettener (Wise One, or perhaps an apprentice.)
Alex Prescott
Bryan Ragon (Borderlander; does not live long; dies well.)
Sally Rankin
Kimberly Readdy (Wise One, or perhaps an apprentice.)
Kris Ring (Seanchan Blood)
Anna Roberts
Nikhil Rode (Aiel scout)
Robert Rose
Angela Ryddingwood
Maureen Sampson (Aes Sedai)
San D’ma Shadar (Group referenced by Mat which fought in a historic battle; translates to “Slayers of the Shadow”.)
Michael Sarcone (Darkfriend, on request.)
Nathan Sawyer
Eric Silva
Shane Spears (Aiel, of course.)
Leisha Springer
Margaret St. John (Maiden name [not tweeted] will be a Seanchan general.)
Caitlin Sullivan (White Ajah)
Roger Trask (Aiel fighting in Last Battle)
Lindsey Turnbow (wolf)
Neil Tweed (Some woods, named after the original owners.)
Pia Maria Vaajakallio (Aes Sedai)
Kurt Wagoner (Two Rivers man)
Eyal Weinstock
Jordan White (wolf)
Shiv Whorra
Harm Wieringa
Savannah Rose Young (Seanchan general)
Jason Zigmont
Do you want your name to appear in A Memory of Light ? Click here .
Not sure if you wish to defend yourself: http://www.reddit.com…
Thanks for the heads up.
“The auction will be through eBay and 10% of the proceeds will go to the Mayo Clinic” Wait, 10%? What about to the other 90?
To Jordancon, a non-profit. (It’s all there in the blog post.)
On the A Memory of Light name drive: this is PRIMARILY a fund raiser for Jordancon, which Harriet and I believe deserves support.
For a while, I’ve been wanting to do this to help Jordancon make ends meet, as I think it is a great way to honor RJ’s name and legacy.
Please note that Jordancon HAS applied to be tax-exempt as a 501(c)3. This means you will probably be able to deduct your donations.
Cindy Goodman, just drew your name to be in A Memory of Light .
Jason Zigmont, I just used (a variation of) your name in A Memory of Light . Details, for those confused, here .
Glen MacDonald, welcome to the Deathwatch Guard. ( Explanation )
Running on too little sleep; I’m having trouble getting A Memory of Light written on the plane. Instead, I’m going to start filling in name placeholders.
Shane Spears , you are first. Yes, you will be Aiel. There’s really no way I could pass that up. Steven Karam , you are in A Memory of Light too.
So everyone who donates gets their name in? Or are you just selecting a few?
Selecting semi-randomly, I’m afraid. Everyone is in ‘spiritually’ but I won’t have enough names for all.
Eric Peters , you’re in. Kimberly Readdy , you are wise, are you not?
Can you say approximately how many names you will be needing? just so i know just how small my chance is… :)
Maybe a hundred.
What do you have in as placeholders?
I use “***” to placehold in books, sometimes with one letter at the end to keep different placeheld people straight.
Eleanor Pettener , you are soon to be wise. Laura Hayden , you’re in. Shani Gamble , are you a boy or a girl? Name websites can’t decide.
Have you started drawing names for the JordanCon auction? Also, there’s no clear date as to when the drawing really “ends” …
Yes, this is for the JordanCon deal. I’m pretty sure that the first cutoff is right. Anyone before then has a chance.
How do you decide which names you’re going to pick? is it based on sound or?
Sometimes, I draw. Others, I just scroll, then stop at a name and work on it a moment. See if it works.
(waving hand wildly) How about dropping in a fellow author? Granted, an indie author, but an epic fantasy indie author.
Nothing wrong with being indie. But, in this case, I’m only using people who donated.
For all still wondering what’s up with these names, and how to join in the fun, here is that link again.
Is there a spot where you post the names? Just in case we miss the tweets?
I will try to post them all at the end.
What are the chances of a name getting used if you donate?
Hard to say. It will depend on number of donators and number of names needed. Between 1% and 10% maybe?
Eric Allen , you’re in the Tower Guard. Someone just swore at you, but he swears at lots of people. ( How to get in )
Einar Laastad Kjosavik , the good news is you’re an Asha’man. The bad news is that one of the Forsaken just balefired you.
So if half my name is a Forsaken’s alias, and the other half is an Aiel chief, should I even think about going on the list?
Ha. Well, I do change most of the names, so anything can theoretically be used.
Hey man, so If we donate to the good cause we are guaranteed a spot in the book or names get pulled off the list at random?
Mostly random, I’m afraid. There is one ‘sure shot’ auction coming up, but last time that went for A LOT of money.
How many names do you still need in the book? And how many new names are there actually? Was just curious to those numbers.
I’ll use around a hundred in the book, I think. Still need to choose most of those.
Mikayla Micomonaco , congrats! You’re in A Memory of Light . I hope you don’t mind being a damane . Details .
Margaret St. John , you are a Seanchan general. (Using your maiden name; thanks for providing that. It worked great.)
Joff Brown , I drew your name next. I made you into a city, actually.
A “city” in the Blight?
A Memory of Light will reveal it for sure.
People are asking how many more names I’ll use, as the book is 80% done. I left placeholders in dozens of names earlier that will be filled.
Are you just dropping names in as is or will they be “Wheel of Time-ified”?
WoT-ified.
Alex Prescott , you are in A Memory of Light .
Jonathan Burt and Jonathan Brockelman , you two are a pair of Whitecloaks.
Need a name for a sister from the Green Ajah. And…the name chosen was David Emery, who entered the name of his late sister, Filis .
The A Memory of Light name auction has begun. One winner. Or enter the drawing , multiple winners.
I am still picking names to go in the book, as per this blog post . Should be more of those tonight.
The “Get your name in A Memory of Light “ charity auction had to be restarted due to ebay issues. Here’s the new link .
Enough people have asked, so it bears repeating. The name auction and the name drawing are different. Explanation here .
Thursday is the final day to enter the drawing to get your name in A Memory of Light . Details here .
Today’s the final day to enter the drawing (& support JordanCon) to get your name in A Memory of Light . Last chance.
The drawing to get your name in A Memory of Light closes to entries in 4 hours. I still have a lot of names to draw.
How many more names are left to draw?
Still a good fifty, I’d say.
Have you been using people’s names for characters? Haven’t seen any posts/updates with that in a long time.
I’ve been putting in placeholders, and will be drawing out names over the next few months to replace them.
Shaun Davis , I just used your name in A Memory of Light .
Shiv Whorra , I needed another name, and you’re in too.
Is there a running list somewhere of the reader names you’ve used? And I hope you’re feeling completely well soon. : )
We’ll post them all once I’m done.
For those asking about names: this was done as a fund-raiser for JordanCon, so I’m no longer taking names. (Sorry.)
Explanation follows . (I do this sort of thing for all of my books, though, so there will be chances for other books.)
Robert Moreau and Robert Rose , you two are next. Welcome to A Memory of Light .
It is so exciting to see you pulling the names out of the hat… how many do you think you’ll end up using? :)
Still many more.
Since you’re not taking names anymore and have a full rough draft, could you make a guess at our odds of being drawn?
Really hard to guess. I have about 1,000 placeholders in the book, as told to me by Word, but…
Most of those are not “replace a name here” notes, but instead “Look this up” or “describe this better” or “continuity check.”
Brandon Bryant , welcome to the Band of the Red Hand. (Unfortunately, we’re not accepting new names. Details )
I know no new names—for those of us who put ours in the hat before, how many spots approximately are left? What are our chances?!
I have no idea, I’m afraid. There are about 2k people in the drawing. Maybe a hundred names? Rough guesses.
Daniel Egonsson , I drew your name for A Memory of Light . (Unfortunately, we’re not accepting new names. Details: http://www.mistborn.com/blog/1021/)
But for those of us in the drawing we still have a shot right?
Yes.
Gavin Doyle , you’re in too. (Yes, I will eventually post a list of all of these.)
Jacob Figler , you’re next. (Sorry, ladies. I’ll draw some female names soon.)
Hey that’s me!!! Are you saying my name is going to be in A Memory of Light ???
Yup. You’re in the Band of the Red Hand.
YES!!! Check out the shirt I got yesterday hahaha! Perfect! And THANKS!!! http://yfrog.com/ob7i2zpj
Useful picture. Now I can describe you. :)
haha, well if you need any details let me know!
Okay, here’s a woman: Jesamyn Angelica , you’re in A Memory of Light .
Kevin Fanshier , I only needed one name for A Memory of Light today, but yours is it.
Kurt Wagoner , you’re in A Memory of Light as a Two Rivers man.
Laura Hepburn , I have chosen your name for A Memory of Light .
Leisha Springer , your name came up next.
Nathan Sawyer , you were drawn next.
Do you or your assistant keep a list of drawn names? Can you post them?
I do keep a list, and will post them eventually.
When you write a book do you fill the less important names in later?
Often I do just that. It can break the flow of writing to develop the right name, particularly when I might cut that scene.
Angela Ryddingwood , I have drawn your name.
Bach Payson , I put you in A Memory of Light , but immediately killed you. Sorry ‘bout that.
Oh, and Bryan Ragon , same goes for you. You died well, though.
Craig Foster , you round out the trio of dead Borderlanders I needed for this scene.
Just curious Brandon, are the names coming out of the proverbial hat, or do you look for names that can be easily WOTified?
Most things are pretty easy to wot-ify. And, since I can use either first or last, I haven’t yet found any that don’t work.
Are you changing the names of people you put in A Memory of Light to make them more “Randland” appropriate?
They are changed.
Michael Gonzalez , your name came up next. (Yes, I am wot-izing all of these.)
Mione Haak , I drew your name for A Memory of Light .
Neil Tweed , you too.
Who am I? Dark or light? Do I die well?
I try not to use fan names for the shadow very often. I actually named some woods after you.
You would have been one of the original owners of the land where the woods were, I should think.
Nikhil Rode and Nils Loodin , I needed two Aiel scouts.
Kris Ring , you’re a member of the Seanchan Blood.
Johnnie Lee Barrington, Jr. and Jay Dauro , you are members of the Deathwatch Guard.
Paul Benish , hope you look good in the hadori .
I’m confused. You are still using names but won’t take anymore? So my name may still come up assuming you aren’t done us …
It very well might. If you are on the list, there is a chance.
Pia Maria Vaajakallio , you are Aes Sedai.
Maureen Sampson , you’re in the White Tower too.
Natalie Doyle , your name came up for A Memory of Light .
Melissa Bergevin , your name came up next.
Harm Wieringa , your name came up next.
Taking a long time to add the names hehe
I’m doing the first revision, and running across places where I left placeholders instead of names.
Jordan White , you’re a wolf.
Lindsey Turnbow , you too.
Is anyone keeping track of the names that are being drawn for A Memory of Light ?
Yes, they are. We’ll post them eventually.
Savannah Rose Young , you’re a Seanchan general.
Sally Rankin , your name came up too.
They all get changed. Some as little as Thom or Mat (if appropriate.) Some to things very different.
How many names got submitted?
Three thousand, I think.
Anna Roberts and Andrew Holcombe , I drew your names most recently for A Memory of Light .
Caitlin Sullivan , you’re in the White Ajah.
Courtney Gliszczynski , your name came up next. I think I’ll adapt your first name, not your last, if that’s all right…
Michael Sarcone , you asked to be a Darkfriend for some reason, and I obliged.
Chris Gilbert , you entered your son’s name into A Memory of Light and it has been used.
Drew a bunch of names I didn’t report. Eric Silva , Hugh Hill , Sean Little , Rion Kinosaki , Helen Cousins , Eyal Weinstock .
This is Sean Little, the guy that emailed you previously regarding putting in a group name. Did that entry have…
… San D’ma Shadar as the name?
Yes.
Thank you very much.
Trying to figure out the San in that phrase, though. Is the “San” a name, or a word in the Old Tongue I’m missing?
The translation used on the site (made by our Old Tongue experts) is Slayers of the Shadow. I could ask for the exact translation.
That works for me. I actually put the name in a place where it could refer to a group, so I’ll tweak it to do so.
Your favorite Two Rivers man, Azi al’Thone, back to bug you again :D I had put in an entry for SDS as well… and since…
…I’m a member of SDS of TV.Net , I’m wondering what (if any) possibility there is of making Azi part of it?
Of course, I understand if that’s complicated or doesn’t fit with the story—had to ask anyways.
The group is referenced by Mat as being part of a historical battle.
Oh okay! Yes, that would be really hard to make work then :P Thanks for the response, Great Lord :)
Working on one of the big, climactic sections at the end of A Memory of Light right now. Not many names left to draw, I’m afraid. A handful, maybe.
Remember, there is a special group of Dragonsworn in the Last Battle representing all who donated, so even if you aren’t named, you’re there.
Roger Trask and Charlie Bachelder , turns out I needed two more Aiel to fight in the Last Battle.
This entry is a collection of tweets by Brandon announcing the names of the fans who won the charity contest to get their names in Towers of Midnight . Also named in the book were Matt Hatch , webmaster of Theoryland (innkeeper at The Dusty Wheel); Melissa Craib , webmaster of Tar Valon (innkeeper at The Seven-Striped Lass); and Jason Denzel , webmaster of Dragonmount (innkeeper at The Happy Throng). Also included were Kate Nepveu , an old rasfwrj fan and blogger for Tor.com, and Anthony Aziz of TarValon.net, who won the JordanCon 2010 auction. According to Linda’s article on the subject , Padra was named after Tricia Erikson , a JordanCon publicist who passed away recently from cancer.
I missed these tweets by Brandon (date unknown), but Linda kindly shared them with me:
Oh, one more. Joel Derby , you’re dead too.
Also, Nick Okamoto , I used your name in Towers of Midnight this morning. Congrats.
Need to name two men who die gruesome deaths in Towers of Midnight . Tim Riddell , William Reeves , RIP.
Also, John Sloan , you survive.
Most readers know that Robert Jordan looked to real world names and places as inspiration for names in the WoT.
In order to help maintain this feel, I’m doing the same. For Towers of Midnight , I’m looking for inspiration in the list of names from a fund raiser.
First name: Adam Hahn . Congrats. Now, know that I may adapt the name, and may use either the first or the last, depending on what strikes me.
Second name: Alfred Granger .
Next, Adam Sampson and Adrienne Hotard.
@howardtayler—lol. I actually used the Adrienne part. Beautiful name, with a very ‘WoT’ feel to it.
Laura Negin , you ended up as a village near Tar Valon.
Alec Breen, Alejandro Uso , your names just got picked to appear in Towers of Midnight . Also, Alisa Harris, I don’t think I mentioned you yesterday.
Recently adapted names: Fitzgerald Clark , Eric Mazsone , Han Zhang . You guys just joined the ranks of the Younglings.
Maksim Zhukov, your name came up next.
Nicole Nimry , I trust you won’t mind joining the Green Ajah?
Farah Sadaoui , into the book you go.
Jennifer Kaiser , your name just got chosen.
Kine Lohne Finsas , I just used your name in Towers of Midnight . And I’m sorry for dropping a Trolloc on your head.
George Zell , I just used your name (or a version of it) in Towers of Midnight .
Paul Postuma, I named a door after you in Towers of Midnight . [?]
The door will make sense in the book’s context. Remember, I usually keep posts about unpublished WoT books intentionally obscure.
Sarah Kainec , how good are you with a spear?
@Galadriena You’re Sarah, then?
Well then, your earlier reply was perfect. Watch for the name Kainea in Towers of Midnight …
Her tweets are protected, so I couldn’t include them.
Brent Welborn and Brian Lehnen , I hope you don’t mind dying bravely in battle.
Christopher Helmke , you survive. (For now.) Duty is heavier than a mountain…
Dustin Durham , Ed Sorrentino , Eddy Knapper , see my previous post. That goes for you too.
Timothy Brown , you’re an Asha’man.
Steven Connelly, Rhett Petcher, you have fallen in battle.
Robert Barett , Sean O’Connell , you survive this day. (Barely.)
Last name for now is Sigrid Andersson. Hope you’re a good horseman.
Amir Yoeli and Stephen Antill , peace favor your swords. One of you saves an someone’s life; the other Heals his broken leg.
Deep Bhandari , did your parents name you with the expectation that you’d end up in a fantasy novel? Hope you look good in black.
Ifeyinwa Eboh and Eva Snyder , I just handed you spears and put you into Towers of Midnight .
Paul Jarr , your name just came up for a scene in Towers of Midnight .
Yes, that post yesterday does mean I’m writing new material for Towers of Midnight . Revision isn’t ALL done, but enough done to be filling in scenes.
Scott Reid , hope you’ve been practicing with your Two Rivers longbow.
Susan Moore [?], you just made an appearance in the Wheel of Time. Congrats.
Andrew Sparks , you are in Towers of Midnight . You are not human, however.
Varkey Titus and Tina Wagner [?], welcome to Towers of Midnight . Your names got drawn.
I will be posting more names of people who got into Towers of Midnight . (These are people who participated in the WoT charity drive a few years back.)
First name: Scott Bartlett . Congrats.
Shawn Montgomery , how are you with a longbow?
Kine Elandra Bjørnsdatter Haug. You’re in the book too. (Note, I WILL be changing these names to fit…)
Leslie Annis is next. Many of these names are going places I put placeholders in the text. In some, I use a name from Mr. Jordan’s files.
Judith Bélair -Kyle, you are in the book, as is Jonathan Sim .
Lyford Chris (Or is it Chris Lyford?) Either way, you are in the book.
Mark Comer , you’re in too. Congrats.
Gregory Frenette , I choose you! (Read in Pokemon voice.)
Jaswant Singh Ranu and James Hirsch , your names came up next. Almost done naming for the day.
Jeremy Naus , Kevin Orr , you two came up next.
Okay, done with names for now. Next, spellcheck. (Wince.) After that, next section goes to Team Jordan.
David Redbord and Nicholas Votrobeck , if you look closely at Towers of Midnight , you may find that your names appear.
By the way, Maura Tirasso and Reo Meyer , I just used your names in Towers of Midnight .
Miguel Barriga , Michael Lashia Yang , Pingtjin Thum , Rebecca Joseph. All in Towers of Midnight . Two of you have been eaten by Trollocs. Sorry about that.
Rick Proska [Proska Flats in Saldaea ], Robb Kremer [Kremer Road in Saldaea ], Shannon Berndtson , Sharon Mettler , [?] I used your names. (Or a variation of them.)
Andrej Gadzo: Tai’shar Malkier .
Rosalia O’Reilly, practice your weaves.
Also, in case you’re thinking I’m naming a lot of names, remember—each new WoT book has added (on average) around 200 named characters.
Oh, and Karen Clarke and Lisa Sommerfeld , you are spear sisters. Congrats.
Michael Cuellar , you are in Towers of Midnight .
Michael Trostler , hope you look good in a black coat.
Jonathan Hamm, get yourself a black coat too.
Eric Boettger , you are in Towers of Midnight .
Heidi Soderquist, welcome to Towers of Midnight .
Joshua Turner , you’re in Towers of Midnight . Found a person I forgot to name.
Robert Soelter , your name just went into Towers of Midnight .
Martin Bergman , you are in Towers of Midnight .
Bryce Koronko , I named a game of dice in Towers of Midnight after you.
Christopher McClintock , you are in the Band of the Red Hand.
Landon Williams , Bryan Kralle you both just got entered as last-minute substitutions in Towers of Midnight for terrible names I’d made up and didn’t like.
Just realized that, amusingly, I gave a name to an extant, unnamed WoT character. Therefore, I retconned a WoT fan into an earlier book.
Robert Jordan often picked names for the WoT based on names in our world. I didn’t do this in The Gathering Storm , and it felt wrong.
He did it because the WoT world is our world, in another time. Thom, Mat, Elayne, etc. My names were immersion-breaking.
This is working much better, trust me. They will all be changed to fit the world.
What’s this? Someone in the draft I forgot to name? (I often mark these with a *** mark, indicating I’ll name them later.) Well, well.
Myles Harvell , you are in Towers of Midnight .
Well, look at this. One last person in the epilogue I forgot to name. Glenn Bergevin . You’re in. 7% cut from the scene you are in.
Norm Miller, a cook needed a name. You’re in.
William Klock, I needed another name.
Steven Lussenburg [?] and Edward Givens, found a couple of final unnamed people. Really thought I’d filled those in. They are now you.
You are cheapening a former collection of masterpieces with your “get your name in a book” competitions. Lost all respect.
I would feel worse about it if Robert Jordan hadn’t done it too. And GRRM. And Stephen King. And Asimov. And Anne McCaffrey…
Did those authors auction off naming rights, though? They’ve all Tuckerized friends/family, but that’s not the same thing.
Many of them did them as charity auctions at various conventions, I believe. It has a long tradition at sf cons.
I tried to list only people who had specifically put in fans, not just people they know.
RJ did it in a pretty limited way, though. That’s why I defended it at first, but IMO it was a little gratuitous in Towers of Midnight .
What do you mean, limited? Pretty much every name Jordan used was adapted or straight lifted from our modern world or mythology.
I was specifically talking about fan names. Even fan names don’t bother me so long as they’re smooth as the parallels all are…
…but in Towers of Midnight , there were names dropped in when it seemed there was no practical purpose to name the characters in question.
Like, the characters showed up, got named, went away, and never came back. For example…
“Two Maidens—Surial and Lerian—guarded the open doorway to the hallway…” and another example (cont)…
“They stepped through the gateway into a small alley, guarded by two Maidens—Lerian and Heidia…” In cases like that…
…it seems like name-dropping for the sake of it. Though I’m sure the effect is exacerbated for those in the know.
RJ named a ton of characters with no practical purpose who never showed up again. Brandon’s intent was to follow that practice.
Sure, but RJ also had a ton of unnamed characters, and IMO didn’t name them awkwardly like those two examples I gave.
I’m not sure if you noticed, but there was a lot of discussion about this after Towers of Midnight came out. Many people noticed it.
I didn’t notice the discussion, and those examples don’t look at all awkward. But it wouldn’t surprise me If RJ did a better job.
Brandon also has plenty of unnamed characters. I’m just saying RJ’s use of random named characters wasn’t particularly limited. [And of course, no one ever said that it was. His use of fan names was limited.]
The reason why they’re awkward is became the naming of the characters is a sideline to what’s actually going on, rather than…
…serving a purpose in the narrative. It’s a subtle difference, that could be easily solved with a tiny bit of effort. (IMO)
Seems to me RJ had a lot of named characters with no particular narrative purpose. Others may have a different impression.
You misunderstand me. Characters can have all ranges of purpose. That’s not a problem. But how is the name worked in?
No, I understand you just fine.
But in any case, there’s no point being defensive about it. Either the criticism is important to Brandon or it isn’t. *shrug*
I suggest that the names stuck out more when Brandon did it than when RJ did it largely because readers knew what Brandon was doing…
…whereas the writing process was much more of a black box for RJ.
Didn’t I already suggest that? But again, it could easily be smoother with a little effort.
And that’s a difference Brandon is fine with. Other things he tries to do more like RJ but doesn’t quite because he’s not RJ.
Yes, we’re aware that Brandon is fine with this difference. Sometimes it’s best to err on the side of caution, when possible.
And as I said, the examples you gave look smooth enough to me.
Yes, but you defend nearly everything Brandon does. We’re talking about something that bothered several fans, not just me.
Again, either the criticism matters, or it doesn’t.
“could easily be smoother with a little effort” is very easy for a non-writer to say.
Something very easy to demonstrate, even for someone who doesn’t write much. (I do write some, by the way.)
If it’s too difficult to make smoother, then just don’t name the characters it’s not necessary. If the best you can do is…
…throw the names in a parenthetical, then perhaps the characters simply don’t need to be named.
So you’re saying RJ never threw names in a parenthetical. That may be.
I don’t mean to defend for the sake of defending, but when someone complains about something Brandon does that RJ did, it’s irksome.
I understand. I wasn’t even trying to compare to RJ, except the quantity of fan names used. I felt like it was quantity…
…that led to situations like the two examples I gave. A desire to fit in more fan names.
The word “irksome” is that often used in daily English or a more history/fantasy word used in such lit? (work related inj)
It’s a fairly common word.
For the most part I’d say Brandon is only naming characters he thinks RJ would have named. Not to fit in fan names just to fit in.
He goes to the list only when he needs a name. He doesn’t pick out names first and then try to fit them in somewhere.
Except for the top auction winners of course.
I find it hard to see how names were needed in those two places.
If he thinks RJ would have named them, then that counts as “needed.”
Even in later drafts sometimes Maria or Harriet would say “give this character a name” when Brandon hadn’t already.
Some people complained about names Brandon made up in The Gathering Storm . You can’t please everyone. :)
You can’t please everyone, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to do the best you can. Especially when you constantly…
…go out of your way to reassure fans that it is important to you to uphold this legacy. Small details do matter.
That line is often used when you’re doing something that will please some and upset others. This isn’t such a case.
Yup. Giving random characters names is a small detail that matters to Brandon because it mattered to RJ.
I’m not complaining about giving random characters names. You keep trying to paint it that way, though. Why?
You keep trying to paint this as something RJ didn’t do. Why? Maybe you can prove he didn’t name characters in parentheticals.
I think the way Brandon is doing it is fine and basically the same as the way RJ did it. You disagree.
Did you just ask me to prove a negative? Really? LOL. Maybe you can find an example where he did the same thing.
It’s not worth it to me to try that.
If you’re wondering why some fans are getting increasingly frustrated with this process, then this is why.
We have bent over backward to be supportive of Brandon in cases where our support was dubious. But the minute we have…
…a criticism of any sort, we get defensiveness. Not ‘filed, taken into consideration’. But ‘you’re imagining things’.
And yes, this [re: Peter’s last tweet] is becoming increasingly clear as well.
You see this as a much bigger deal than me, clearly.
WoT? Clearly. This issue? Worth a tweet to Brandon in the hopes that he will take it into consideration.
This issue. And maybe he will.
I think we can just concede that the author has the freedom to do what he pleases with the naming of characters?
I think everyone is aware that Brandon has that freedom. That’s not the point.
Terez27’s avatar does say “Serious Business”—are you surprised she’d see it as a bigger deal? lol
Good point.
In my mind it’s still something where Brandon is doing pretty much what RJ did.
It’s not my job to go through every paragraph in the series to try to prove that.
No one ever said it was. Apparently it’s your job to get defensive, though. Or is it? Next time, just make a note of it.
It sounds like you only want a non-response to anything brought up. “filed, taken into consideration” is a non-response.
It can be. If the issue isn’t important to you/Brandon, I’d rather a non-response than a pointless argument.
I don’t think that saying “This is basically what RJ did” is defensiveness. My first tweet to you just asked for clarification.
Yes, and I clarified, and you dismissed my clarification as irrelevant. Instantly.
Once I got the clarification I gave the “this is basically what RJ did” answer.
It takes two to make a pointless argument. I guess you’re saying if I think something isn’t important, I should say nothing.
I apologize to the folks who follow both me and @PeterAhlstrom. Done spamming your feed now. ;)
I’m sure it would have been a much different conversation in person. Twitter strikes again.
That’s fine. Made my walk with the dog a lot more interesting!
Don’t you need to watch your step when you do that, instead of watching your phone?
I posed the “irksome-question” to let you know (in a subtle way, I hope) that people were “listening” out here.
heh, I was well aware from the beginning, and I’m sure Peter was as well.
Next time you can just say “Get a room, you two!” ;)
I thought some of RJ’s were fairly obvious. Paitr Conl, Jac, Bili, Joslyn, Jaim, Dannil, and 5 spellings of Alice.
Ya, though in this case the adapted forms weren’t what the discussion was about. Some people have complained about those though.
[re: this tweet ] I don’t think he’s saying that… Think he just doesn’t see it the way other readers evidently do.
I do think Reader Response is the most relevant type of literary criticism.
Definitely. But felt that whole argument was a big misunderstanding. Felt bad.
More like a difference of opinion on a very minor issue.
This isn’t a minor issue because a very large number of fans have a serious problem with the auction just on principle—Brandon responds to some of them every now and then on Twitter (such as the guy who started this conversation; I didn’t @ him in my response to Brandon for a reason), and Brandon’s responses are included here—because it favors fans who have more money (the more you donate, the greater your chance of being chosen, though the minimum is a small amount). When you have an issue that is already touchy like that, you have to be careful in how you handle it. Luckers and I were among Brandon’s biggest defenders when he announced the name contest for Towers of Midnight . We pointed out Guybon before Brandon did. The complaints were even louder after the book came out, and at that point, the choice was much more difficult to defend. This type of usage is also a big disappointment to those whose names were chosen; they thought they’d won something exciting, but they’re written in such a way that makes their names seem an afterthought. I doubt anyone expected to be a major character, but a little smoothing would have gone a long way.
I do apologize for coming off that way. It’s really not my intent. Criticism is important to feel free to share.
Specifically I personally give your comments a lot of weight because I know you know your stuff.
Thanks. We know that Brandon has a tough job, and an awkward situation at best. But it’s awkward for us too, in many ways.
It’s a little difficult to be someone who knows more about WoT than the guy who is writing it, aside from the secret stuff…
…and to have to watch it all unfold from a rather passive position. I’m sure you understand. ;)
Point taken.
Chuckles, you can say that knowing about Terez’s “Gawyn will kill Rand with Callandor theory”? Poke-poke…. ;o) [Not sure where Felix got the Callandor bit from.]
Theories and a thorough working knowledge of what’s actually in the books are separate things.
Note that in many of these cases, Harriet said to me “What are their names?” when I just wrote “Two Maidens.”
Harriet always pushes me to be more specific. You’ll find it in The Gathering Storm too, where I wasn’t using fan names.
Yeah, I understand that much—and sometimes, it works. I imagine that not all examples of Harriet asking…
…for such ended up with examples like I gave, where the names are thrown in parenthetically.
In the fan criticism I mentioned earlier, these cases were always the ones fans noticed. Even at DM…
…where the subject comes up every two weeks in a new thread, mentioned by different new users. [I should have said ‘came up’, because I was thinking about the period of a few months after the book came out, not recently. Also, crosstalk after this because Peter types faster than me so I was unprepared for the more stately tweeter, Brandon.]
The examples you gave—though I only looked briefly—could have certainly been done better.
Probably, they should have just been “*** and *** went and did such and such” rather than the parenthetical.
Right, something along those lines. And again, those of us ‘in the know’ were probably bothered more by it.
That’s more of a prose issue than anything else, though—an area where RJ was very strong and I’m relatively weak.
Yes, I’ve noticed you have mentioned that before . Which is why I thought it worth a tweet. :)
We’ll try to keep an eye on the issue. We should have more time on A Memory of Light than we did on Towers of Midnight for polishing.
I don’t *Think* we’ll have a ‘shoehorn in fan names’ issue, since I have just left placeholders for names I need.
Every one of them is a name I’d have had to make up, but instead, I’ll adapt a fan name.
Still, it’s worth a look-over specifically for this issue.
Oh great. Now that Brandon responded, how much do I need to put in the Twitter archive post?! >_<
LOL. See, we share this burden. It should create a bond between us! And if you want to skip it I’ll cover it. You can link ;)
Nah. I think there’s a good splitting point I can use to keep it relevant to Brandon’s reply. You can include whatever though. :)
Before you can link you both have to reach/open yourself for saidin / saidar . And who will control the weaves? ;)
I said ‘bond’, not ‘link’. And I wasn’t talking about the Warder bond either. ;)
Really look at the earlier tweet here then. You typed bond in a previous tweet also.
I meant link to the website. *sigh*
I know, but the best work was when men and women worked together with the power of the WoT ;)
The fan names never hugely bothered me, but I do agree with Terez that they are noticeable.
I think because they feel more like blank spaces in the narrative than colouring in the scene by…
… Naming those present.
I’m somewhat more troubled by the treatment of fan criticism. This is about the fifth time I’ve…
…seen you do this Peter, with the same line: ‘It’s a problem in reader appreciation, not the writing.’
And not everyone has Terez’s tenacity or confidence, and thus allow themselves to be silenced.
And given I’ve seen you both cite the value of the lack of fan criticism in judging Brandon’s efforts…
…yeah…It’s a little disconcerting.
Maybe I should back off.
I think Brandon has recognized it, by responding. And we have played the silencers before, haven’t we?
Peter is in a tough spot. I can easily say, “Yeah, I did a poor job on that one. I’ll watch for it.”
Peter, however, doesn’t want to put words in my mouth, or apologize for me.
Instead, he seeks to defend me, since he knows I won’t see most people’s posts or be able to respond.
It may surprise you, but we felt the same way after the release of The Gathering Storm , despite not being fans.
I empathise, I just don’t sympathise. Not after the way you’ve both held up a lack of fan [criticism]…
…as validation for your work on the Wheel. It’s a circle, the lack of criticism held up as proof…
…whilst the act of criticism is met with sweeping dismissal that most would never argue.
Point taken as well.
Makes me curious which criticisms you’re referring to. I wouldn’t mind if you emailed them to me.
So I can be aware of which ones the fans feel we aren’t listening to.
Will do. :)
I think both Luckers and I have really tried to strike a balance over these last few years between…
…defense for the sake of support and criticism for the sake of criticism. I will email you.
(In other words, most fan response seems to fall under one of the two categories.)
I will admit most things I care about aren’t things most fans would care about. Maybe scholars.
But that’s assuming scholars ever take an interest in the WoT. ;)
Terez seems a little full of herself and I resent the fact that she seems to think she speaks for all fans.
Most fans love the books for what they are & don’t pick them apart to show off.
[hours later, after a nap] Who ever said anything about me speaking for all fans? Now you sound like the guy who said he ‘lost all respect’…
We’re aware that most fans don’t give a shit about the fine details. I never claimed to be most fans.
These kind of criticisms I find ridiculous and over the top—Guess I’m just too casual.
It’s only ridiculous and over the top when it turns into a stupid argument.
I woke up on the wrong side of Twitter today. Sorry about that.
“Even he—Jori, bonded to Morvrin—managed it.” #wotrr ( Lord of Chaos Chapter 29, p2) For @PeterAhlstrom. ;)
Remind me what brought it up.
I favorited his tweet, and moved on.
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