Re-reading The Gathering Storm —I know I’m a silly Cadsuane lover, but I really don’t like the The Gathering Storm Cadsuane and Tam scene.
Not because Tam gives Cadsuane the verbal slap down, but because Cadsuane’s stupidity in this scene cheapens Tam’s victory.
What should have been Tam’s greatest moment is merely cathartic for those who hate Cadsuane.
I know that she was off balance with worry about Rand—but even so, Tam defeating Cadsuane in her prime is a brilliant moment lost.
You mean you wished she had clever retorts?
No, actually. I think in the face of Tam’s accusations Cadsuane would have openly agreed and accepted his reprimands.
Cadsuane has never been afraid of facing the truth.
In short, her response to Tam’s verbal attack was out of character? Hmm, I would have to reread the scene myself.
It was out of character, yes. Cadsuane’s been mostly out of character since the beginning of The Gathering Storm .
In my opinion, of course. :D Still, i feel The Gathering Storm and Towers of Midnight between them were to be the books were Rand came to equal Cadsuane.
Instead Cadsuane was made less, and it makes Rand’s achievements and shut downs of Cadsuane seem small and petty.
He did not even have a mission like Cadsuane did. As I said—cathartic to those who hate Cadsuane, but not good scenes.
Re: Cadsuane’s oddity in The Gathering Storm . Maybe you could point this out to @BrandonSandrson, and see what explanation he could offer you.
Maybe Cadsuane’s strength of character was sacrificed for plot’s sake, or for that scene’s sake. Just maybe.
I actually did ask @BrandonSandrson about Cadsuane. And Harriet. Got a fairly similar response from both.
For those unfamiliar with Twitter, this is the point at which Brandon was made aware of the conversation, as his name was invoked.
My question was: “I think one of Jim’s strongest talents was the writing of strong women, and arguably the strongest is Cadsuane…
…She is the character that fans seem to either love or hate. I’m curious as to your thoughts about her, and her role in the story.”
Harriet’s answer was “Cadsuane has an important role, for sure.”
@BrandonSandrson’s was “The fact that people are so passionate about her means that Robert Jordan wrote her the right way.”
If Cadsuane’s strength of character was sacrificed for plot it’s bad writing, and I don’t think Brandon would do that.
I think this might be a downside of @BrandonSandrson having been a fan beforehand. The exultation of likeable characters over…
…..unlikeable characters. Egwene in the Tower is endemic of this. (though, I loved that anyway @BrandonSandrson. I’m a hypocrite).
I seem to have been on a negative line of thought tonight. Be aware I love your work on WoT and my quibbles are just that.
I like her, though Verin intrigues me more. God forbid that I should call that scene “bad writing”, but I feel that for Tam to dominate the scene, Cadsuane was made to respond that way.
I disagree. Something along the lines of this would have worked. … (follow link to see a bit of fanficciness from Luckers) http://tl.gd/88d5tl
If @BrandonSandrson wasn’t a fan, though, he wouldn’t handle the books with deepest care like he does. Professionally, still, but not affectionately. :)
I agree absolutely that @BrandonSandrson’s fanhood serves him well—I would not have seen the series written by…
…someone who wasn’t a fan, and the depth of his devotion to this series is VERY clear.
This is but one point where is was disadvantageous (in my opinion) against a sea of advantages.
Agreed. And a non fan would treat the greatest fantasy story of the decade as a mere job (whatever the results of @tordotcom’s sff poll, I don’t care. I’m muley that way).
I’m curious what you think about my portrayal of that scene?
Ok, having compared the original with yours, I must say…yes, the original scene portrayed Cadsuane as being much colder than she necessarily is. Then again in defense of Brandon (why would he need it of me? I’m too full of myself), I think Cadsuane in that scene was someone who felt that she wasn’t being respected and valued despite all her efforts for Rand. But yes, the verdict is: that’s out of character.
Ha. I’m afraid that I didn’t have a chance to follow all of that. I’m not going to object to Luckers having…
…strong opinions here, though. I don’t see him saying anything that I can disagree with, except that we see things…
…differently. Poor Cads was at her wits end in some of those scenes. She was pretty sure she’d doomed the world.
Note that the fan/non fan as writer argument is a good one, and one I’ve mentioned myself. This is what you get.
I try hard to not let those things influence me unduly—but if they do, I (by definition) won’t be able to notice.
Lol. I would have been surprised if you had got through all that. We went a bit crazy.
Curse you Luckers, now I have to document all that because Brandon commented on it! lol…
Hahaha. I’m so gonna look like a douche by the time you’re done Terez. *sigh*
My problem with the ‘doomed the world’ concept is that I reckon Cadsuane would still be there with a stern…
… frown as the world burns. Indeed we see her willfully risk the world at the cleansing. There is…
…the matter of degrees obviously. I dunno. My love for the old woman may be leading me astray. *sigh*
And I am very much aware that most the fandom disagrees with my opinions on Cadsuane. She’s just my girl. :D
Among the older members of the fandom, many agree, actually. But @BrandonSandrson ‘s explanation re: her growing exasperation…
…was the explanation I came up with for myself at the time (though I still lean toward ‘out of character’ a bit).
That’s the price for me documenting all that: my opinion. :p For example, Wetlandernw and Freelancer from tor.com agree.
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