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Interview #183: Budapest Q&A, Entry #5

Mort

What about the thread of the life in case of the Forsaken? Are they part of the Pattern or they are outside? Is it broken in the case of the Forsaken?

Robert Jordan

No. They’re part of the Wheel, except for the fellows who’ve been balefired, who are now gone: no rebirth [resurrection]; they’re out. The Dark One is outside of the Pattern, as the Creator is outside of the Pattern, but everything human is inside of the Pattern. One of the things that the Forsaken hope to gain is immortality. And immortality would put them outside of the Pattern.

Footnote

RJ has said elsewhere that balefire is not the eternal death of the soul, and Brandon has confirmed it (and so RJ was merely saying that the balefired Forsaken could not be transmigrated into new bodies).

Rhynn

You’ve wrote somewhere that Moridin used the True Power and he stepped out of the Pattern or something like that.

Robert Jordan

No, he’s made a hole in the Pattern as a way of Traveling which uses the True Power, which is a different thing. If you notice as far back as the Prologue of The Eye of the World , when Ishamael Traveled in to meet Lews Therin, who was mad, the description does not match the Traveling that we see later. It’s because at that point, Ishamael is using the True Power, which produces a different sort of effect for Traveling. It is a different method of Traveling than either men or women use with saidin and saidar .

Mort

The descriptions are quite similar when he arrived by Travel with saidin . You also say ‘bore a hole through the Pattern’, and for the True Power, I think in one instance, ‘ripping a hole in the Pattern’. And in one other instance you wrote that he stepped back inside the Pattern.

Robert Jordan

It’s similar. Similar, but it’s not the same thing. It’s why it produces that fading in and fading out effect.

Sequoia

But if a woman used the True Power she would use it the same way?

Robert Jordan

Yes. It’s not separate. The True Power is not like saidin or saidar . The reason there are differences for men and women using the One Power is that one is using saidin , for men, and women are using saidar , which are not identical. But using the True Power, which flows from the Dark One, men and women are using exactly the same force, exactly the same source of Power.

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