Mormons and polygamy, question from a non-Mormon.
There are only a handful of (officially registered) Mormons in my country, so I know very little about the religion. Wanting to know more, I’ve been spending some time on the mormon.org and lds.org websites. It surprised me when I came across a part on polygamy, which stated it was practiced by Mormons before 1890, but no longer allowed now. The reason it was allowed before, is because God commanded Joseph Smith to have multiple wives. Then in 1890, Woodruff had a revelation where he was told to stop the practice of polygamy (you probably already know all of this, but I just want to make sure my views can be corrected if I’m wrong). Whether or not it was actually related to Utah becoming a state isn’t relevant to me, I’m just quoting what it says on the site.
Now for my question… I actually asked this on the mormon.org chat as well, but was called a troll and subsequently banned.
What if I or a member of your church has a revelation which commands him to have multiple wives? Would you believe that person, knowing that according to your church it has been commanded in the past? Would you support that person? Or would he, when following God’s will, be excommunicated?
It’s a valid question. I don’t know why you’d be called a troll for it.
There are a few principles at work here, and if you don’t mind, I’ll build to an answer to your question. I might get a little long winded here; if so, I’m very sorry.
We believe strongly in the concept of personal revelation—in fact, it was a cornerstone of Joseph Smith’s ministry. Basically, if God does exist, we feel that the only way to know that is for Him to tell you personally. Otherwise, it’s all hearsay.
A lot of that is in line with what was believed by other Christian religions of the time. Even still, in a lot of sects, a ‘calling’ to teach is an individual thing. To become a preacher or pastor, one needs only a witness from God that you should.
That, however, is one of the points where LDS theology deviates. While we believe in personal witness and revelation, we believe the scope of what you can get a witness for is limited to your sphere of responsibility. In other words, while you can pray and seek direct guidance from God on your life, you cannot go to your neighbor and say “I’ve had a witness that you should do X, Y, or Z.” We don’t think God works that way.
There are, however, people who can get guidance for others. It depends on your sphere of responsibility. A parent can get guidance for their children, a bishop for the members of their congregation. (Note: this is within reason. He has responsibility for people’s spiritual welfare, but not for other aspects of their lives.)
The prophet—president of the Church—is given responsibility for all members of the Church, and is the only one who has the ability and authority to speak for the church as a whole. We believe he is directly God’s mouthpiece on the Earth. And so, he can set Church policy.
So, the answer to your question is this: we believe that God works through organized means. Revelation from God comes in line with things that you have responsibility for. Now, the argument becomes: “In terms of marriage, don’t you have responsibility for your own choices?” Yes, you do. However, the prophet has spoken for Church policy, renouncing polygamy as a practice.
An individual doesn’t have the right or authority to go against Church policy. (Well, they have the right—they may do as they wish, and anyone may make their own choices.) However, God will not send revelation that contradicts Church doctrine. If He did, there would be total chaos—and no purpose for a Church in the first place.
So if you were to claim God told you to marry multiple wives, it would be the same as if you claimed God told you to start stealing, start your own church, or do anything else expressly against previous commandments. I would not speak on your personal relationship with God, and that is your business. But the Church is within its authority to excommunicate you for such actions, and we would believe what you are doing not to be God’s will. (If it were a friend of mine that I trusted, I’d look to God and see what he had to say on the matter.)
On a personal note, personal revelation is a tricky thing, and must be taken with a healthy dose of skepticism. It is an essential part of the Church. As I said, logic dictates (to me, at least) that if there is a God, and he does want you to follow him, he will respond and tell you that directly. But that is basically the purpose of personal revelation, to let an individual know that God is real and to guide in choosing one’s philosophy, religion, and goals in life.
Anything beyond that starts to get us into questionable areas. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen—it does. But at these points, you have to start asking yourself, “Am I just doing what I want, and pretending I have a divine mandate? Do I REALLY feel this is God’s will?” In this, like in all things in life, there’s a distinct need to follow the great law of the universe: Be reasonable.
Probably because some people think it’s funny to abuse the online chat, which in turn causes false-positives for genuine questions.
The concept of personal revelation is certainly something I can appreciate. These days, religion has often become more a form of indoctrination than something spiritual. I don’t know nearly enough about LDS to have an educated opinion on the subject, but still.
Would you say the LDS’s views mature over time and are perhaps even culturally bound? It’s the only religion I know of that has living prophets, so practices that were acceptable in the past (polygamy, exclusion of black people from priesthood, …) but are now considered immoral and wrong, may be changed over time. Do you think that in 20-30-40 years, when gay people are perhaps (hopefully) fully accepted by society, LDS will accept them as well? Or maybe even let women become priests?
And thanks for the detailed response. It looks like there’s a distinct hierarchy involved, which is understandable, though something I am very skeptical of. Especially in combination with personal revelations. Too often have I seen that position of power been abused (in the name of God of course). But again, I don’t know enough about LDS to make any claims, nor am I here to turn this into an anti-Mormonism thread.
I’m very sorry to take so long to reply to this, Alfredo_BE. I’ve been off doing some revisions on a book that is due…well, let’s just say I’m late on it. But I did want to reply to this because your questions were so insightful.
I do think it is possible that the LDS Church’s views on things like this are culturally bound, and that God is simply waiting for the right time to mainstream gay marriage into the Church. There are some who believe this strongly. I think the chances of it being that way are slim, considering statements released and the such, but it could happen.
There are examples of this all through the history of religion. The apostles telling a slave to return to his master in the New Testament when it is pretty clear that slavery is not a good institution. Blacks being denied the priesthood in the LDS church is another; there are implications that the biases of church members were part of the reason this happened. (Joseph Smith, for example, ordained a black priest—but Brigham Young stopped the practice.)
If you’re really interested about how the Church works and who Joseph Smith was, look up the book Rough Stone Rolling on Google book search. It gives a free preview, and you can read through the chapters 12 and 13. This is a biography of Joseph Smith done by a Colombia professor (who is also a church member) which is generally considered—by both LDS and non-LDS sources—the best biography of him.
It’s a thick read, though in its favor, a lot of LDS activists think it goes too far in delving into the controversial aspects of his life. While many anti-LDS activists think it doesn’t go far enough. It sits happily in the middle, and I found that it didn’t pull punches, but was still respectful.
Sorry again for the late reply.
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